Transgender rapist moved to women's prison segregated after unwanted advances

Thanks Flyingflipflop. I was hoping someone would come along with some more in-depth knowledge.

So transwomen sex offenders are a specifically double edged sword, in terms of their vulnerability to attack, and their potential to attack women.

I do see the difficulty.

Although, on the one hand you have a suspicion that they are transitioning purely to get an easier life in a female prison, or to access females. And on the other hand, wonder why they make such a big deal out of transitioning, as it leaves them so vulnerable to attack.

And of course, no one can suggest they are transitioning for an ulterior motive, because that would be the height of invalidation.

Do you have any ideas ?

I can't say what the thought process behind it is. It will be a multidisciplinary approach and one that involved the sending jail, the receiving jail and HQ. You'd possibly need to kick a dozen or more people in the shins!

As for cost, places in a female jail are over twice as expensive as male and anyone receiving a person needing lots of medical care/work would need to factor in the costs of staffing that. Hospital visits are great for officers wanting a new kitchen or car but costly for the jail!

Someone mentioned feelings above. Feelings have little to do with transfers. Safety, discipline and order take priority.

Why on earth did they move a rapist with a penis to a female prison?!?!?

The solution to one fox being picked on by the other foxes is not to move him into the hen house!

Especially when the only reason he is there in the first place is for crimes against chickens.

Hmm. I imagine there are a lot of men not safe in male jails. There must be other ways to keep them safe than the women's prison.

Thanks for that, Flying.

I do think, though, that whoever makes the decision to house a person with a violent, predatory past alongside women with histories of sexual assault (the female incarcerated population scores higher than average for VAW), well, that person needs a swift kick to the shins to fix their stupidity.

It is inhumane to house rapists with women who have been raped.

But from what you're are saying Flyingflipflop MTF are being transferred to women's prisons because it is the cheapest option and fingers crossed that nothing goes wrong.

Shit! Sorry for the essay!

Datun

Just for info.

Male jails and female jails are set up in similar ways. They will have a segregation unit (seg) and often a healthcare unit. Healthcare is supposed to be used for people with severe mental health problems and seg is for those who need to be removed from prison population either for a period of punishment (sorry, care and separation these days!) or for their own or others protection.

Some prisons will have a Vulnerable Prisoners wing for prisoners who may be at risk from other inmates due to their crime or other factors such as having been a police or prison officer. Some jails are set up solely for VPs, although these are male due purely to numbers.

To my mind I can't ever see a transgender wing (certainly in the short term) being set up due to numbers. The cost would be prohibitive. So what to do with transgender?

You can't seg them for too long unless they are a danger. Seg is heavily controlled and overseen right up to ministerial level. Time in there has to be kept to a minimum.

Healthcare is always short on spaces and it wouldn't be the right place for the other inmates. Helathcare admission is done on clinical need.

VP wing? Often holds quite dangerous and manipulative sex offenders. The risk to a transgender person could be huge. So you are left with two conflicting issues. Keeping the transgender person safe and keeping the rest of the population safe. A difficult balance to keep and I think one you can only manage on a case by case basis.

As for this case, I imagine they were transferred to female because someone had to make the call on whether it was safe or not for them to remain in a male jail and whether it was safe for the females of the receiving jail. Not an easy decision. I imagine he was transferred with heavy notes saying 'Keep a close eye on him'.

Bronzefield have and now he's in seg. Out of a difficult situation, they seem to have done the right thing.

Ironic isnt it Willow

However speaking out means they are faced with threats and violence from transactivists

Welcome to the world of women!! FFS

The few transwomen I know do think this free for all is damaging. For females and the trans community.
However speaking out means they are faced with threats and violence from transactivists.

Men doing what men do best using violence and the loudest voice to get what they want. Women are just the fodder that gets wasted in the process.

It's interesting that MTF were allowed in women's prison because otherwise it would hurt their feelings. Nobody gave a toss whether having a rapist in women's prison hurt the female prisoners feelings.

Isn't it just. One would be very wrong to draw any conclusions about it though, I'm sure.

Dont yell at me...i dont mean it

But thats what people are going to say

Why won't the trans community stand up and say this is not what they want.

Because it surely can't be, can it?!

I understand there is a spectrum of perspectives: at one end you have men who have spent their whole adult lives attempting to pass and have gender reassignment surgery. At the other end you have men that dress like men, behave like men but want to "be a woman" (sometimes interchangeably with "being a man") because they find it a turn on.

Who does this "anyone can be a woman because they say so" suit? It doesn't suit the men who want to quietly pass, it doesnt suit the Caitlin Jenner's of the world.

Well he is obviously a lesbian !!!

And why would you concede to it?

Because those in charge do not see women as important, less so if they are criminals.
Allowing this rapist access to women did not cause those in power any distress or harm so they do not care.

As others have said it's abhorrent that this rapist has been given "access" to women, many of whom will have suffered abuse themselves as well, and sadly unsurprising they've used this to make "advances" on women, doubtless getting off on continuing to intimidate and make them uncomfortable. I agree that someone born male should be in a male prison and especially someone convicted of sexual offences against women/girls. It's enraging - the notion of abusing access to women's spaces is relevant in other contexts too I think.

It's the least these women can do after all the heartache that transgender women have. Besides, they are not very good women are they? Have you seen the suicide rates and the murder rates for trans people? They get killed more than, well some other people. Ok, not women but other groups of people. And NATWALT

I read in here and other forums "men would not go through all that just to get in to female spaces"
Yes they will and they do.

Men who want to hurt women will go to extreme lengths to do so.
This man was jailed for life he had nothing to lose. Having a sex change was a way he could continue to abuse women while being jailed for raping two. Not only did achieve his sick fantasy the NHS paid £10,000 to enable it.

I'm seriously struggling to understand this. Where the fuck has common sense gone?

Far from being the most oppressed people on the planet. I keep encountering transwomen who have more clout, not just than women, but than other men, too.

Quite apart from the danger he would pose to women, how does this constitute punishment, particularly for a rapist?

How does the mindset go that says this man hates women, likes to attack women, has been convicted for raping women, has a fetish about being a woman, - I know, let's put him in with the women.

What possible leverage could someone apply to make that happen? And why would you concede to it?

This is absolutely horrifying. A lot of times I'm all for live and let live, but this is endangering women who've been forced to accept a male sexual predator in their midst.

If you have a penis, you ain't getting in.

I was going to agree with this, because castration seems very apt under these circumstances.

But then, I can think of many ways a rapist could intimidate women, without their penis.

So, personally, I think if you're born a man you stay in a male prison. Particularly if you have been convicted for sex offences or violence.

As far as I know, male prisons have separate accommodation for those who are both more vulnerable, and those who are more violent. To protect both themselves, and others.

I don't know if female prisons have the same? Obviously there are violent women, but there are fewer of them. Or maybe specifically in terms of inmates, the percentage is similar?

I'm wondering if male prisons are just set up better to accommodate violent people. In which case why would you ever send them to a female prison? It seems like a double whammy of stupidity.

It's interesting that MTF were allowed in women's prison because otherwise it would hurt their feelings. Nobody gave a toss whether having a rapist in women's prison hurt the female prisoners feelings.

There just needs to be one rule regarding entry to a womens prison.

If you have a penis, you ain't getting in.