Transgender rapist moved to women's prison segregated after unwanted advances

I probably have missed the point.

I just felt the thread was shifting from rapist in female prison to prison officers deserve more pay.

The penis is neither here nor there. A violent male rapist is a violent male rapist with or without a penis.

"How does the mindset go that says this man hates women, likes to attack women, has been convicted for raping women, has a fetish about being a woman, - I know, let's put him in with the women.

What possible leverage could someone apply to make that happen? And why would you concede to it?"

@Datun spot on as usual.

The stupid decision making was ultimately made when some bozo decided prisons should be segregated upon gender and not sex.

It should be unthinkable that a MTF should be in a women's prison. It was always going to be a total fuck up.

Cosmic I think you missed the point. Cuts to staffing levels means the most experienced staff have left. Leaving us open to stupid decision making like this.

Flying as much as you are correct that pay cuts risk everyones safety this thread is about a male prisoner what is serving life for raping 2 women has been put in a womens prison which resulted in him making unwanted sexual advances towards female prisoners. Not pay cuts to prison staff.

Flyingflipflop

I didn't know you were male. But I'm now totally seeing you as Mr Barraclough from Porridge, whilst channelling your inner Mr Mackay when necessary.

busyboysmum

I believe, statistically, 80% do not have genital surgery. With women, it's even higher. Hardly any have genital surgery, because it is so unsuccessful and can't function.

Personally, even genital surgery wouldn't do it for me. Many autogynephile's ultimate fantasy is to have sex 'as a woman', even if that means losing their penis.

The fetish relies on the humiliation of women and seeing them as victims. Despite, still being attracted to them, yet having a pseudo bisexuality in order to fulfil their fantasy.

In your average Cat B local, nobody gives a shit.

This I can say with absolute certainty is true!

busyboys - about 75% of transwomen retain a working penis apparently

fairplayforwomen.com/trans-women-working-penis

That said women prisoners should not be put at risk because prison officers are not paid enough.

I don't want to get into rights and wrongs but all prisoners are put at a higher risk, along with officers. I suspect in these straightened times females do relatively better than men.

When I worked in female jails you always had ministers and other big wigs wandering round. In your average Cat B local, nobody gives a shit.

As for the £25 Datun mentioned, it's not something I've heard of.

I've been out a couple of years but the figures were roughly £21k pa for males and £47k pa for females. The reasons are many, but some of the costs are down to things such as women needing more medical treatments either through pregnancy or other related stuff (you've gathered I'm male so not well versed on female medical stuff!) and also higher rates of drug addiction. Access to education and efforts to rehabilitate tend to be better (and more costly) in female jails.

I've worked in both male and female. I've seen quite a few transgender MtF but no FtM. In all fairness, most of the transgendered prisoners I dealt with never caused a drama. They just wanted to get on with life. I can remember a couple coming in still not fully transitioned.

The case I mentioned above similar ended in a similar outcome to the Bronzefield one.

How would I safeguard FtM? Not sure to be honest. Possibly some kind of poor copers wing. If I had someone vulnerable on my wing I used to make them my wing cleaner or hot plate orderly so as I could keep an eye.

That said women prisoners should not be put at risk because prison officers are not paid enough.

Of course they are, have you ever heard the analogy "pay peanuts and you'll get monkeys"?. At £17k a year for new recruits, it's an entry level job with no qualifications needed. Loads of people entering the prison service because it's easy to get the job and not because they are interested in the job itself. It's disastrous to be honest!

So what exactly was the £10,000 spent on (presumably from the NHS) if he still has his penis? What's he got himself? A nice pair of breasts he can fondle whilst playing with his penis?

I think if they have the surgery to remove the penis then fair enough, that shows commitment. If not they are not women and can't be treated as such. Would like to see some statistics about just how many of these transwomen still actually are hanging on to the old todger. Sounds like having your cake and eating it to me.

I'd cut it off for free

sauceyorange

I agree, it seems an awful lot. You will have feminisation surgery, to the face, for instance. Shaving of the Adams apple, slimming down the jaw line, etc. And hormones, of course.

From what I understand from another thread, transwomen in male prisons get £25 a week for cosmetics and toiletries.

Although perhaps Flying will confirm that. Because it seems like an awful lot to me.

One thing I'm seeing being taken for granted here is that a trans prisoner is more vulnerable than a non-trans one.

Is that really the case? This person still had his penis, was still the same size, wouldn't significantly weaker than another man. If he was on hormones he might have started growing (very small - from what I understand, older transwomen don't generally have significant breast growth) breasts - but then again, there might be many prisoners with moobs - what is it that is making him suddenly more vulnerable than any other male prisoner - plenty of whom could have physical or mental health or issues?

I don't think that anyone convicted of a violent sexual offense like rape should ever be funded for a sex change. How can you possibly identify as female if you have used your penis to force yourself on someone?

Pay the screws a decent wage and you'll get decent staff who stick around.

I can see what your saying Flying and my understanding of the prison system is very limited.

That said women prisoners should not be put at risk because prison officers are not paid enough.

Pay the screws a decent wage and you'll get decent staff who stick around.

Totally. Also many other similar jobs. Woefully underpaid.

We could see the manipulation, the conditioning and we stopped it.

This is interesting. So you were completely able to tell that someone was the swinging the lead?

Because, I see a lot of awful misogynistic men who have transitioned, but according to Stonewall and the ideology in general, an ulterior motive can't exist. Literally. If you are trans you are trans. They do not, ever, need to provide a justification. Even if it is patently obvious that there isn't one. Immaterial.

Slight tangent but what on earth was the 10,000 spent on if not a penis removal?

Very interesting info flipflop thanks

The solution to one fox being picked on by the other foxes is not to move him into the hen house!

Especially when the only reason he is there in the first place is for crimes against chickens

Quite right timbuk and the last piece missing from your statement is likely the only reason the fox is getting picked on is because he's committed crimes against chickens.

The man's a fucking rapist and a particularly brutal and sadistic one given his sentence. Even other men are capable of recognising that a rapist is a piece of shit and I imagine treat him accordingly.

How his safety can be put above those of the numerous women he now comes into contact with beggars belief.

Tangental Qs for Flyingflipflop, why do places in women's prisons cost twice as much as in men's?

Have you had any experience of dealing with transmen in male prisons? What safeguarding would be put in place?

Your comments are really interesting.

I completely agree that prison officers should be paid much more and we need more of them.

I'm going to duck whilst saying this! Actually the transgender problem in jails is a bit of a symptom.

The problem is a deskilling of Prison Officers. Nobody cared about screws. You only have to look at the fictional portrayal. Stupid. Crooked. Thugs. The truth is far from that. You walk in each day and are surrounded by criminals. You're in a hostile environment. Like many public sectors costs were cut. The old officers left and new ones come in on vastly cheaper wages, and fewer of them.

As a screw you're used to problem prisoners. You know your wing. You know your prisoners and you know who to ask what dramas are going on. If this prisoner had landed on my unit (and I have dealt with a remarkably similar case) we knew what they were up to. We could see the manipulation, the conditioning and we stopped it. Everyone wants an easy life, and a harmonious wing makes for that!

Pay the screws a decent wage and you'll get decent staff who stick around.

Datun: Far from being the most oppressed people on the planet. I keep encountering transwomen who have more clout, not just than women, but than other men, too.

THIS.

The increasing determination to give men unrestricted access to women and girls. The repetition of the belief that a man is a woman if he says he is. I just cannot understand how this collective taking leave of your senses has suddenly arisen. Who has the power to push this agenda, and why?

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” (Voltaire)