Transgender rapist moved to women's prison segregated after unwanted advances

Horrible consequences of things that are fundamentally right happen, and that shouldn't stop the right thing happening (though the risk assessment for this move should have been pages long, or perhaps extremely short).

The difference here is that IMO the thing is not right. A biological man is not a biological woman. A biological woman is not a biological man. Under any surgical circumstances. If there are institutions whose only differing factor is biological sex, which there are, then biological sex is the sole criterion for selection between institutions.

It's not the same rapist @Terfing. This one (who raped a schoolgirl at knifepoint) was called Martyn Eatough before he 'lived as a woman' and became Jade.

He was being held in a male prison.

I just read on Twitter that this prisoner was found hanged today. A few papers are running the story.

QuentinSummers

Great. Thanks.

Yes convicted of rape datun. I guess under joint enterprise law. It is very rare though. Example here:
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk/2001/mar/17/sarahhall

I thought they had both been convicted of rape but there was several charges between them. I stand corrected.

Women can be convicted if they facilitated said penetration

Will they be convicted of rape? Or sexual assault?

In the UK rape is non consensual penetration with a penis. Women can be convicted if they facilitated said penetration. So no, you can't be raped without a penis coming near you in the UK, where Winfield is.

Here is the relevant guidance:

The elements of rape are:

(A) intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis;
(B) does not consent to the penetration, and
(A) does not reasonably believe that (B) consents
Penetration of the mouth is included.

Rape is still a crime of basic intent, and drunkenness is no defence.

www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/rape_and_sexual_offences/soa_2003_and_soa_1956/#a09

Quentin can I just correct you and say you can be violently raped without a penis coming any where near you. The chances are the person doing the raping will be male but not always. Im not going to go into the circumstances I'm very aware of but there was a female and a male perpetrator and it was fucking grim.

So much wrong with that article, I will just pick out this though:

The implication is then transgender people are more likely to be rapists – though the reverse is actually true.

To me that says transgender people are actually less likely to be rapists. That's what opposite means I thought.
But it appears Pink News means they are more likely to be "harassed, sexually assaulted or subject to other physical violence when they use a gendered bathroom".
As if somehow being on the receiving end of violence makes it reasonable for a transgender person to visit violence on someone else.

Similarly they say Again, having a penis isn’t what makes people attempt sexual assault.
Er yes, there is a huge correlation between owning a penis and committing sexual assault. 98% of sexual crimes are committed by people with penises.
Similarly, in the UK, where Winfield is in prison, rape requires a penis. This person could not have committed those offences if they didn't have a penis.

Fuck off, pink news

Fucking hell, that Pink News story really beggars belief.

They are literally swimming in the Kool Aid. Their complete and utter lack of concern for women borders on out and out contempt. Why do they even pretend to be any kind of voice for lesbians and bi women? Just call it G & T news from now on (because I bet gay men aren't being invisiblised in the same way).

Sorry started thread about this article. Just seriously pissed off at how women's safety is so much less important than the crime of deadnaming a rapist.

Pink News here, missing every point possible.

www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/09/08/the-mail-just-implied-a-transgender-rapist-made-unwanted-sexual-advances-because-she-has-a-penis/amp/

No worries. I didn't think it was.

Sorry Lass that wasn't directed at you.

Oh I'm not accusing them of making it up. Both have made up stories or taken liberties with the actuality but I wasn't saying that here.

I think we can consider the Sun and DM count as "mainstream media" whatever we may think of them, so not sure why the accusation of people on the thread making the story up.

www.lifesitenews.com/news/sexual-predator-jailed-after-claiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault

Yes, mainstream media are renowned for keeping away from sensational or outrageous stories.

The story about making advances was reported in The Sun and The Daily Mail. Whether they are reliable or not I leave to you to decide.

Any reputable source for the initial story? Or do we all just believe everything we read on the internet without question?

What would constitute a reputable source? Most mainstream media probably won't dare touch a story like that.

No, I don't believe everything I read on the internet, but there's been other reports of male rapists being sent to women's prisons and molesting the women there, and there ARE reputable sources for the fact that male rapists are sent to women's prison - the transactivists never made a secret of wanting males to be treated legally the exact same as women, with access to ALL women's spaces. They only don't want to admit that some male trans / males claiming to be trans, are rapists. That bit, everyone with a bit of common sense can figure out themselves.

Are you suggesting violence never happens in a womans prison? Women can and do take physical revenge against paedophiles, even on their own.

Well, I have no idea how much violence happens in women's prisons. Though I am pretty sure TV shows exaggerate, they always do.

I assume that males who have spent a lot of time in prison are more knowledgeable about that than me, and since they seem to be just fine with taking their penises to a woman's prison, it stands to reason that there's probably not enough women who have their razor blades ready to castrate the pedophile.

I mean, I'd wish a male pedophile in a women's prison would get his "bottom surgery" free of charge, courtesy of the actually female prisoners there, but this obviously isn't what happens. Else we would have heard about it already. (I mean, it would be all over the press, the transactivists would be SO delighted to finally have some actual violence they can blame on "terfs")

Mustang27

How do we differentiate who has genuine body dysmorphia and who is taking the piss to get access to someone or something more vulnerable than them. Or do we believe that if someone is in prison they don't deserve to transition?*

I don't see it as an issue that is deserved or not. It just is.

But neither do I believe you can change sex. Prisons are segregated for reasons that other places are segregated by sex.

If the prison authority wants to change the criteria, then that's a different issue.

Any reputable source for the initial story? Or do we all just believe everything we read on the internet without question?

I'm all for proper debate on this but if we need to make stuff up to prove our points then we're not going to get anywhere.

You know what I completely agree considering their previous crimes however they may not have reoffended and be a completely acceptable human being for these women to be around.....obviously this is not the case here and no I don't think it is acceptable. There will be vulnerable people placed in the wrong environments the world over it's sad regardless.

How do we differentiate who has genuine body dysmorphia and who is taking the piss to get access to someone or something more vulnerable than them. Or do we believe that if someone is in prison they don't deserve to transition?

I know we are dealing with a rapist here, sorry I'm not deliberately being inflammatory I just find it hard to know what is the right decision other than treating everyone as an individual.

Maybe it should just be the case that all transgender/ transitioning people should be kept together but not mixed.