Usborne Puberty Book tells children that breasts exist to make milk and to make girls look grown up and attractive

I don't know anyone who intended to tandem fed and then weaned the toddler once the newborn actually arrived.

I know women who intended to but never got there due to issues during pregnancy (aversion, milk drying up etc). Some of those actually weaned the toddler in pregnancy but then found they could feed them again once baby born and free flowing milk.

But stopping tandem feeding once there are two children because of latching issues? Not heard of it. Not saying it doesn't happen just that it's something I've not heard of.

Would be interesting to know if there's been a study done, I doubt it though.

It's an interesting thought - while I know small boobs are perfectly capable of producing milk and feeding a baby, all the women I know who tandem fed have bigger boobs
I wonder if there is a study....?

I'm sure they do, but larger breasts presumably allow for more movement.

Not heard that argument before blue. Flat chested women still manage to feed a toddler plus newborn (for example) as well as a large breasted woman don't they?

Surely the shape of a woman's breasts facilitates feeding two children of different size and age.

Opah... it has, but it bears repeating

I thought that the sexualisation of breasts was social. In some other cultures, breasts aren't even attractive.

I'm sure someone on thus thread has mentioned this already though. I haven't rtft

You can't compare the word slut to the word creep in any meaningful way, unless you don't understand that slut is perjorative.

I wonder what's in newdaddie's mind when he says slut.

Replace the word 'creep' with the word 'slut' and suddenly the diatribe and shaming on this thread will look very familiar.

I don't see how. You've said what you did wasn't sexual. Why are you comparing to women who are shamed for sex?

Not to mention that 'slut shaming' is about policing what women do with their own bodies and you're being accused of creepiness for the way you've come (on to a mostly female board) describing what you do to someone else's sleeping body.

Unless you're just talking about insults in general? in which case it's interesting you didn't miss a chance to use the word slut.

The feeling of being creeped out had nothing to do with feeding the baby. It's the way you talk about women's bodies, your wife's body, the matter of fact way you refer to undressing an unconscious woman (regardless of the reason for doing so), and the way you expect congratulations for being able to restrain yourself from having sexual feelings about your wife's breasts when it's not appropriate.

And let's not "set aside" your snide little remarks. I think they're very telling. As was your little list of "people who are intelligent enough to debate", which I see I got bumped from in short order when I challenged you.

In this context it was very apt PricklyBall. Unless I plan to go all Jack Nicholson hacking down mothers doors to latch their babies onto them.

That would be creepy.

And a very ridiculous remake of the shining. Almost as ridiculous as your argument.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine I haven't read The naked Ape and I'm a bit too young for the documentary. I did an elective which included evolutionary physiology (not psychology) but tbh I focused my essay and main reading on the sensory homunculous.

Replace the word 'creep' with the word 'slut' and suddenly the diatribe and shaming on this thread will look very familiar.

Nope, completely false equivalence.

Creeps are creepy because women read them as a threat. It's the Schrodinger's rapist thing - we don't know which creeps are just a bit seedy and which will escalate to violence. We worry about creepy men because they may physically harm us.

Calling a woman a slut on the other hand - it says nothing about her behaviour towards other people. It's a term used purely to demean the woman in question. Nothing in her behaviour harms other people.

Your LC may appreciate the feedback then

Babyfication of language put me off from a lot of potential maternal support.

I can't take credit for daddy assisted latching, that was the lactation consultant. Maybe I can swap daddy with daddie and get away with the plagiarism

I'm not at all because bothered with the assistance, but "daddy assisted latching" really is making me shudder. You should perhaps rethink your wording on some things.

But I will give you a little leeway for it still being in the early days

Thanks @MrsGWay it was a revelation for us. I'd definitely recommend other parents putting it in their toolkit.

Dd was 2nd centile but otherwise healthy and we were supported by a nutritionist and a lactation consultant throughout. The lactation consultant recommended assisted latching. Dd didn't take to formula and we tried every brand of powder and ready mixed, repeatedly.

We co-slept and the daddy assisted latching happened when Dw returned to work at 4 months and lasted until dd was about 9 months. Comforting didn't work. Midnight drives didn't work. Long walks at 2am worked occasionally.

I think dw getting back into the board room actually helped a bit too and we were forced into a routine. I drive to work so we arranged for us all to meet up for lunchtime top-ups in the car and for night time I set a silent alarm on my watch and would wake dd about every 3 hours for a night feed when Dw had to get up early the next day for work. Dd is just above average height now (we are both tall) but still low on weight, but she's our skinny mini and we love her to bits lol (PFB is so apt and is still making me lol at myself, I love MN)

I might just cringe at myself in a year but right now I'm basking in the warm glow of the PFB

If you can't understand that actually breasts don't exist 'for men' then I feel sorry for your daughter.

Replace the word 'creep' with the word 'slut' and suddenly the diatribe and shaming on this thread will look very familiar.

Putting my brass neck and pa strikethroughs aside for just a moment. This thread is on a feminism board and moreover this is a parenting site. Dw & I trust each other completely and there's no shame in our parenting team. If you can't understand that then I genuinely feel sorry for you.

The wording is pretty bloody awful, and has fallen into the same trap a lot of people do when they don't really understand the evolutionary process. In fairness, this has happened because there hasn't really been a good documentary series about it since the Naked Ape.

The fact that women have fatty breasts is not because men like them like that. Evolutionarily speaking, it is females that choose who to breed with, often based on subtle cues around the male surviving having higher than average amounts of testosterone, which causes a deleterious effect on male physiology. Because human females breed rarely, they must choose the best possible mates in order to produce the healthiest possible offspring with the best possible chance of surviving to be able to reproduce at least once.

Big boobs or otherwise has very little bearing on this.

So yes, men may well like boobs in some cultures, but that isn't why women have them.

Entirely agree, datun.

I think it could have been worded a lot better but I understand the message they are trying to put across. There's things about both sexes that the other sex finds attractive; breasts are one of them. Most men are attracted to boobs and they are not only there to produce milk. It's nature's way of making us want to have sex, procreate and carry on the human race.

Some men learn feminism (up to a point) in the hands of their daughters, I sincerely hope newdaddies does so in the next few years.

My DH and I both scientists, and have raised our own PFB DD accordingly, and I cannot begin to imagine that he would have ever said anything so inaccurate and disrespectful as 'Breasts are there ... to make girls look grown up and attractive'

MrsGWay

It doesn't to me. Maybe it was the way it was worded. Using the word undressing probably. No-one 'undresses' to feed. Just sounds creepy. Also the image, in my mind's eye doesn't sound nurturing or helpful, just a little controlling and detached in a creepy way.

It might be just a collection of things newdaddie has said. The playground insults. The conviction that he is raising his daughter to be a leader based on her playgroup behaviour. The fact that he revels in what he views as her attempts to manipulate him with hugs and cuddles (all fairly predictable PFB cliches, I agree, but damaging stereotyping nonetheless). The passive aggressive striking out of comments about other people's (imaginary) children. And the arguing for telling 8 year olds that breasts are for men.

I have to disagree with the latching on thing. It sounds like this is a mutually convenient way of doing night feeds.