Can we talk about liberal feminism?

Just keep in mind, when he beats you, radical feminists made the first domestic violence shelters.

I'm guessing you haven't read Erin Pizzey's memoirs on this?

@Missymoo100 actually she didn't say we should tear it down and be vengeful. What she said was in simple terms, be true to history and it's facts. Be open to Britain's history. Teach the correct history. At no point did she say it needs to come down. She did say the uk and world is looking at America in horror. At the same time forgetting it's history and what they did to the world. The monuments they built here and those they tore abroad and it's an issues that the uk is trying not to address, it's going to be an issue in the future.

countries have started asking for their stolen artefacts back. This is not going to end anytime soon. No one is trying to take away your privilege or make you feel bad.
"The reaction in Britain has been, as in the rest of the world, almost entirely condemnatory of neo-Nazis in the US and of its president for failing to denouncethem. But when it comes to our own statues, things get a little awkward. The colonial and pro-slavery titans of British history are still memorialised: despite student protests, Oxford University’s statue of imperialist Cecil Rhodes has not been taken down; and Bristol still celebrates its notorious slaver Edward Colston. When I tweeted this weekend that

We have “moved on” from this era no more than the US has from its slavery and segregationist past. The difference is that America is now in the midst of frenzied debate on what to do about it, whereas Britain – in our inertia, arrogance and intellectual laziness – is not.

The people so energetically defending statues of Britain’s white supremacists remain entirely unconcerned about righting this persistent wrong. They are content to leave the other side of the story where it is now – in Nelson’s case, among the dust and the pigeons, 52 metres below the admiral’s feet. The message seems to be that is the only place where the memory of the black contribution to Britain’s past belongs. This last bit at the bottom of the article was her point. I guess you didn't get that far. I saw her channel 4 interview too. Funny how the Irish woman forgot her history. We cannot constantly talk about the historical greatness of the uk knowing that we having selective memory on what we teach.

From her point of view is, America is probably in a better place if they come of it their side.

I am sorry if someone thinks I am derailing the thread. I just can't read something I know it's not true and leave it when I know it's going to affect how people will view me in real life.

Omg ive spelt your name wrong

Sorry quencher

quencer

I see what you mean but i dont think that feeling a kinship with more red fem ideals means that i wouldnt want to tackle the issues and rights of black men

But i might have the wrong end of the stick its a very common occurrence

I'm going to bed when the film ends though so if you reply im not ignoring you

@BertrandRussell And @Rufustherenegadereindeer1
by thinking about the betterment of some men (black men) and how we can tackle their issues and rights and sometime in the same level as mine. I would be put in the brackets of being nice to men and considering their feelings. It's not something I can step out of and have it like minor issue or forget when necessary.
Hopefully, not in away that I think it encroaches on my rights as woman. From all sides. Anyway, it wouldn't mean much if I fought for my rights as woman and still faced racism.

Yes I did read her article and saw the debate with Laura Perrins. I really disagree with the argument. I'm sick of this idea that we have to be constantly apologetic for everything. She makes the point that that colonial Britons tore down monuments in other countries, well it just sounds vengeful. It's like we have to be sorry for forever and tear down statues as punishment to our country. People back then had different values that have changed today. Ripping down statues doesn't solve anything, it doesn't put past wrongs right. Why can't people just move forward to try and make things better. If we're going to carry on like this we might as well destroy all history because it may offend someone.
The fact people act so offended all the time and extreme political correctness is getting totally out of hand.
The extreme left label anything they dont agree with as "the far right" it's another way of shutting people up, and furthering their agenda and they're doing a good job of it.

Nope dont worry i have just found it

The fact that I can consider some men in my thoughts about their wellbeing and fights while fighting for freedom. This is where womanist fits me better mostly when asked about where I fit

So do you mean that radical feminists dont think of some men and their wellbeing?

Thank goodness i said most of the radfem bit in my post

Yep could you let me know what the radical feminist stand point on men is

I have a feeling I'm going to be doing it wrong...

"I guess I would fall under liberal feminism if I was to follow radical feminist stand point on men"

What do you think the radical feminist standpoint on men is?

And I definitely agree with Crenshaw and Angela Davis. I am a liberal by all means.

@Missymoo100 apparently he is the enemy of the far right.
Hated for apparently single handedly creating the refuge crisis which is destroying Europe and its way of life.
For supporting those the state does not want to help. Well I never! I think I will leave my tin hat on the side.

Discussion about tearing down Nelsons Colum. It's constant apologising for things people who have lived and died before us, for every kind of privilidge- did you even read the article by Afua hirsch or was it from something like the dailymail or one of the others?

I guess I would fall under liberal feminism if I was to follow radical feminist stand point on men. I believe that patriarchy is the problem and needs to be dismantled. I want all women to be liberated and non left behind.
I believe that prostitution and porn feeds patriarchy and it is a problem when it's comes to women's freedom.
I believe that I cannot move forward, when my son (not literal but potential) brother, uncle and the rest of the black men left behind from a racist stand point of view. I guess this is where I become a liberal. The fact that I can consider some men in my thoughts about their wellbeing and fights while fighting for freedom. This is where womanist fits me better mostly when asked about where I fit.
But, do I believe in the core of feminism ideology, yes!
I cannot be in alliance with black men when I can or when it suits me, We are in a fight together and sometimes, I, against them.
If that makes me liberal. I stand as proud liberal.

I just can't get on board with the Whole 'sex positive' movement. The LibFem views on porn and prostitution plays into the hands of men and feeds into the abuse that happens to women on a daily basis.

Just no.

Yes such as Soros!, the Hungarian government have been running an anti Soros campaign because they say he is masking political activism in the forms of non governmental organisations.

The social psychologist of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for more than one generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen." -Bertrand Russell quoting Johann Gottlieb Fichte, the head of philosophy & psychology who influenced Hegel and others – Prussian University in Berlin, 1810

YY. I think that's part of what's behind certain "philanthropists" funding and promoting the trans movement.

Education should aim at destroying free will so that after pupils are thus schooled they will be incapable throughout the rest of their lives of thinking or acting otherwise than as their school masters would have wished ... The social psychologist of the future will have a number of classes of school children on whom they will try different methods of producing an unshakable conviction that snow is black. When the technique has been perfected, every government that has been in charge of education for more than one generation will be able to control its subjects securely without the need of armies or policemen." -Bertrand Russell quoting Johann Gottlieb Fichte, the head of philosophy & psychology who influenced Hegel and others – Prussian University in Berlin, 1810

This quote- "convincing children snow is black" so they are incapable of having free thought to me sums up the trans movement. It's designed to alter the meaning of words, reality it's intended to confuse to control. Manipulation of reality. Transgender people don't know what's going on and what they're being used for.

My main issue with LF is it likes to spout that feminism is about choice without a second thought as to why women might make certain "choices" under patriarchy that they definitely wouldn't if it didn't exist.

Yes, me too. What I meant was, to quote a previous poster "The kind of things that liberal feminists will fight for, then, tend to centre around law and policy change, such as: equal education, voting, reproductive rights, abortion rights, protection against sexual harassment and domestic violence, and equal opportunities in the work place". So many of the day to day aims are the same. It's the philosophy- as you say-that's different.

I don't know bertrand, I would like to achieve liberation from male oppression. Most liberal feminists look at me like this when I say that.

I am not all that sure the aims are the same TBH.

Well, it isn't really a load of bollocks, is it? Many of the thinks liberal feminist stand for, as some pp have said, are just the ordinary, feministy things. I suppose the difference is the way, in an ideal world, we would get there. And the huge elephant in the room that even the outspoken Mumsnet liberal feminists won't address-prostitution and porn.

I am only a very recent convert over from liberal feminism and yes, it's a load of utter bollocks. I'm embarrassed about some of the things I used to think and say.

That's really interesting, Missy. Something I really want to know is when this current trans orthodoxy happened, and how it became mainstream so incredibly quickly. It was almost overnight- and if you think how long and hard women and gay people had to fight for their rights, and how there is still such a strong rearguard action against them, for trans people there was no fight at all really. So someone, somewhere must be benefitting from it.

I agree liberal feminism once fought for legal and political changes and protections. I think they have lost their way in a hurry to protect men's feelings in a way that radical feminism has not.

Thats very interesting missy

I don't yet fully understand but I was trying to figure out what was going on with the transgender activism movement, there was a post on here likening it to a cult.
For anyone interested look into Frankfurt school and critics theory.

"The theory was simple: criticize every pillar of Western culture—family, democracy, common law, freedom of speech, and others. The hope was that these pillars would crumble under the pressure"

I feel like we are being controlled and there's something going on. Trans movement has been funded by George Soros, he's funding all sorts of liberal movements. Including black lives matter- look on their website at principles- there's nothing there about protecting the rights of young black men- it says it's mission is to disrupt the nuclear family, we should live in viallages with children raised communally. They refer to trans all the time. They say the words mother, parents but not "father". There are some very strange things going on.

I think there seems to be a lot of apologising for everything of late on the liberal front, even beyond feminism.
I.e. Discussion about tearing down Nelsons Colum. It's constant apologising for things people who have lived and died before us, for every kind of privilidge- now extending to cis privilege. We constantly have to feel guilty about all kinds of things that had nothing to do with us. I'm reading a book at the moment which says it's some sort of social conditioning tactic