Quick - having feminist debate with DS1(14) - I need some statistics

IME teenage boys who get sucked in by youtube admit that women might have it tough in e.g. Saudi Arabia but think that there is nothing to complain about here. Women have equal rights, they will tell you. It's the law that they aren't discriminated against. Women have equal pay for the same jobs, it's the law.
When you point out that in practice that doesn't actually happen, they'll then tell you that's because women choose to go part time or not apply for promotions/pay rises etc. The law gives them equal rights, so if they are not equally represented, it's their fault.

first

Your post reminds me of something I read on here:

"when you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression".

Thanks, pacific, I can see the funny side of being called "old school" anything at the grand old age of 56

Feminists want to get rid of boys & men?! Gosh, the push for equality really does highlight the hatred of the loss of privilege, doesn't it?

Anyway, stats on who is actually got rid of:

www.unfpa.org/gender-biased-sex-selection

You'd be astounded how hard some people find intelligent thinking to be. Rather than polemic ranting.

Your son hates women, simple as that.

Civil debate will do him no good, you need to be hard on him until he learns some respect.

The issue you have is people go online and find something an extremist is saying which they disagree with. Perhaps in this case "all men are misogynists" however your son doesn't think that way because he does agree with equal rights so is upset and offended by the arguments put forward. Being a smart lad he goes away and finds counter arguments to try to support his position. Unfortunately the internet being what it is he will only find extreme idioligy on the other scale. But as some of it rings true to him he accepts it as fact.

Try asking your son if he thinks men/women should have equal rights. If he says yes (and stats say he probably will) then get him to google what the 'feminist' definition is. Mime dropping a microphone, say BOOM and back away in victory!

My dd called me a TERF recently.

Tick!
Opens a debate though, we are currently disagreeing on some trans issues.

Try having a DD who calls you an "old-school feminist" with "cisgender privilege".

There is a point at which being unafraid to say "go away and think for a moment before bringing that kind of stupid crap out" is a fair answer rather than "you may have equally a point, let me waste my time finding out"

This

My ds1 is wanting my opinion on fairly standard stuff, he is certainly not stupid enough to come out with the 'women are richer' bit for example

Because submitting to her son's opinions is exactly what the OP is doing.

DS, like DH is rarely sexist because the majority of sexism is illogical and can't stand up to rational analysis.

Quite. All opinions are not equal and I personally think teaching boys that women will listen to and engage with their opinions no matter how horrible those opinions are sends entirely the wrong message.

I concur. Leads to boys thinking all women and girls should not only listen but submit to their opinions, on all sorts of issues but most notably when they're being misogynists, as I've seen many times.

If you have got a loving, supportive home, it is a safe place to ask stupid questions and air playground/peer opinions to people that will challenge and educate you on the facts without being bullying. Attacking the argument instead of the person making it.
FWIW NoLoveOfMine, I read your comments on the thread about teenage girls and dress/behaviour and them being linked to sexualisation, and I thought you were spot on.

Discussion and debate might be helpful with a 14 year old you have never met before, but given the poster in question (who I remember as a lovely poster) how have her children ended up with these views?

Teens who have grown up in houses where love, compassion and understanding for others are the normal values don't come out with these attitudes unless they're exposed to extremism.

As much as we criticise much of the everyday sexism going on in society, it is the norm for trustworthy sources to promote feminism - the UN for example. It's at the level of conspiracy theory to believe feminism wants to get rid of all men and boys, and those kind of beliefs are couched in corners of the internet propagating hate.

So the basic response to an otherwise kind person should be one of concern for how they're picking up such beliefs, and what particular subset of peers they're mixing with if this is a shared belief, because it is certainly not the belief of all 14 year old boys. To me it's no different from if one of mine came in one day and announced they'd become a holocaust denier.

Maybe we're so caught up with how sexist men are on these threads that we're forgetting that many of them really are not that sexist and this kind of belief about feminism is pretty extreme.

There is a point at which being unafraid to say "go away and think for a moment before bringing that kind of stupid crap out" is a fair answer rather than "you may have equally a point, let me waste my time finding out".

Quite. All opinions are not equal and I personally think teaching boys that women will listen to and engage with their opinions no matter how horrible those opinions are sends entirely the wrong message.

Why is there so much ageism towards No Love of Mine?

I've seen this on previous threads.

I'm glad you've noticed this Sylvia. Whilst the vast majority of posters have always been supportive, there are quite regularly comments of that nature made. Although of course there are many ways in which being older leads to more nuanced opinions, I don't think simply being younger invalidates mine. The most laughable was when a few dismissed my opinions on that thread about teenage girls because I was one

Thank you Somerville and pigeondujour.

I probably didn't articulate my sentiments in the best way and it wasn't a nice way to speak about the OP's son, though I stand by my sentiments about his opinions, so sorry for that. But, no, I'd not have anything to do with either of my brothers if they persisted in coming out with misogynist nonsense after I've explained to them how much girls and women put up with. Even disregarding the most horrific example (which I think about daily), by the time many girls I know, myself included, were the OP's son's age we'd already started being harassed on the street including in school uniforms, subject to misogyny online and offline from boys, in some cases been subject to sexual assaults by them (and yes, "groping" at parties is sexual assault). I also didn't say the OP should say "you're a misogynist" to her son, I said it was my opinion.