Bloody hell - women only carriages AGAIN

Well, let's gladly receive our secular burka-style garments, get chaperones and have done. That would seem to be the logical end result of not placing the responsibility where it belongs.

Ridiculous idea. So happy to see my former local MP Jess Phillips speak out about it.

Like pp's mentioned this will only lead to more victim blaming if a woman dares to sit in a 'normal' carriage and ends up getting assaulted.

We need to make it clear that the men that do this are the ones at fault. Not the woman for simply existing in the first place.

In case anyone is wondering the picture I posted is a real Iranian government poster about how men shouldn't go in the women's only carriages. I actually feel a bit sorry for the poor man in the picture he's obviously got lost on his way home from a fathers day card.
Below is the blog post I saw it. Its actually rather interesting.
www.mywanderlust.pl/solo-female-travel-in-iran/

A German train operator introduced these last year due to the increase in sexual assaults on public transport

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/28/german-rail-operator-launches-women-only-train-carriages-followi/

And it seems Corbyn proposed this back in 2015

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/26/women-only-train-carriages-around-the-world-jeremy-corbyn

Note the other countries listed in the article where these exist

The women's only carriage thing makes me furious for all the reasons you've all said already. And it's just another way to blame women - if we weren't seen in public, then of course, we couldn't be hurt. FFS. That's the argument men in the middle east make and I thought we were finally getting past it.

It's such rubbish. it's also paternalistic bs. "Oh look, some little women are scared and get hurt so let's put them in this little out of the way place. Aren't we lovely kind and caring men?"

Fuck off is what I say. Thank god for the Stella Creasys and Jess Philipps of the world to say it out load when they aren't being accused of being hysterical women

I don't think becoming more like Iran is the answer to men harassing women.

More guards is a good idea. But we'd have to have teams of one female guard and one male guard, just to be on the safe side

I believe Toronto has emergency bars that you press and they stop and arrest the culprits.

Completely pointless.

Doesn't address the issue.

And how anyone can suggest it, and at exactly the same time promote a law that means anyone can identify as female, is beyond me.

The guards need better back up too.

I spent 45 minutes on a train last week, waiting for BTP to take someone off for being aggressive and abusive towards the train staff. It was only supposed to be 5 minutes.

Oh, just make half of the carriages just for men and have done with it.

I think I've given up thinking that men are able to control themselves, given how many men are desperately trying to show everyone they don't think other men are.

I'll take my cue from those men from now on I think.

and there seems no intention of 50% of carriages being women only - even though women are over 50% of the population.

IT's like 'oh, we'll have one carriage for the problematic others, that will make them all go away'

FFS what a load of shit. Totally agree that the men-only carriage would make more sense. Can you imagine the outcry if it were even suggested??!

Good stuff from Jess Phillips and Stella Creasy. They must absolutely bloody despair of Corbyn and his fellow merry men

More guards is a good idea. But we'd have to have teams of one female guard and one male guard, just to be on the safe side. A man doesn't automatically become a decent dude once you hand him an uniform.

I'm not a big fan of just having cameras there - male violence needs to be prevented, or stopped, not just prosecuted - we all know how ineffectual the latter tends to be, and I am not hugely optimistic about that changing in the near future.

If more guards lead to higher ticket prices, I am for an ad campaign that puts the blame for this firmly on men who molest women. A "this creepy dude is why we have to pay for guards" poster campaign.

Excellent point @dinahmorris - there should be enough staff on the trains that people can ask for help if necessary.

I agree with much of what is being said here. Obviously women-only carriages are a crappy solution and surely more cctv + prosecution would be better?

I also suggest that anyone who thinks that having guards on trains to help in these situations should make sure they support the strikes on trains? The recent ones in the south west are about keeping guards on trains, and the ones in Liverpool are along a similar vein. My own family were anti-strike (because of affected their commute) til I pointed out that if trains go driver-only it will make them more risky for women travelling alone.

That's another point DamnDeDoubtance aside from all the other reasons why this is a ridiculous idea and no solution whatsoever to this - anyone would just have to "identify as a woman" to be legitimately allowed on such a carriage anyway and anyone challenging them would of course be a transphobic bigot.

Indeed safe trains would be better all round. I am sure the majority of men are appalled by the stuff that goes on, and I am sure some men are victims of violence on trains too. I was being a bit facetious.

I'd have thought that cctv, guards would help and a bit of bravery to speak up by other passengers and consistent prosecutions.

I take it women only carriages would include anyone who identifies as a woman so they wouldn't be woman only carriages anyway.

What a great idea. A buffet carriage for perverts

Dad's I hope you don't intend on taking your Dds anywhere....

I'll sit where I like thank you. Do something about the men who can't he trusted.

Stella Creasey's responded to him on twitter, with many of the same points, including why not consult on men only carriages too. Not that the assaulting arseholes would sit there. And why not just make trains safe spaces in their entirety, wouldn't that be a better goal?

Would probably be a good idea to have trains with more space (No reason for 'accidentally' rubbing up against people) and more guards available to tackle situations and report problems to.
Can't see either of those things happening though as it's cheaper just to shove women into a crappy carriage so that criminally minded men can roam freely in the rest of the train

Jess Phillips, Labour MP for Birmingham Yardley, said the policy was an "absolutely terrible idea".
She tweeted: "It is essentially giving up on trying to prosecute assaults. Also, men should be incredibly annoyed by [the] suggestion they can't control themselves.
"Sexual violence isn't about urges, it's about power. If you take your feminist cues from Saudi Arabia, you've gone wrong."

The men only carriage should work.

Somewhere - might be Saudi Arabia - they actually introduced this in shopping centres. Lone men are forbidden, only men who are accompanied by a woman are allowed. Of course, this is due to capitalism; single men used the centres to just stand around and not buy anything.

Of course, men can still be assholes if accompanied by women, but it would be worth a try.

And if you were a bloke who likes targetting vulnerable women wouldn't you be quite likely to look in a women's only carriage late at night when there's hardly anyone around?

Very much so. I can imagine men such as those who assaulted a girl travelling on a train a couple of weeks ago in separate incidents (one assaulted her, she moved to avoid him and an unconnected man then assaulted her minutes later) would be put off going into a carriage as it's women only - quite the opposite. Also, who'd be stopping groups of men such as this www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/woman-told-i-hope-you-13041666 going into such a carriage? I can imagine the leering and harassment such a carriage would result in being focussed specifically on that carriage as it is on women and girls travelling now.

Added to that as has been said any woman or girl not in the "women only carriage" were this implemented would be questioned and probably blamed for not avoiding assault. Again, this is an example of the reaction to male violence against women and girls being to suggest change for women not challenge the perpetrators and the attitudes which normalise this, meaning sexual assaults on public transport continue to rise.

Other than challenging these attitudes, more resources to track down perpetrators and men needing to challenge other men on this, I think the carriages on new Tubes in London are preferable - where you can walk all through the train rather than being confined to one small carriage. Crossrail trains will also be like this.

I'd be in favour of a men only carriage. Only men accompanied by a female minder could go on the main train.

I've had a man masturbate in front of me blocking my exit
A man shout at my mum for 30 mins about old women on commuter trains and how they she probably hadn't even paid taxes and she should stand - whilst repeatedly stretching his leg so it kicked her.

A group of drunk football men literally sitting on me (8 month pregnant and using crutches and saying 'you could move love' so I ended up sat on the floor
A old man rubbing his erect penis against my summer shorts ( arse) on a very crowded train. I froze in fear so didn't react how I though I might.

In each situation I was no alone in the carriage and only one event was after dark.

In fact thinking on it, the only times I've really been subjected to this sort of thing is on trains.