Bloody hell - women only carriages AGAIN

I see where Crossrail will end up costing 15 billion (probably much more if the truth be told). And I can't help but think of a crowd at a ribbon cutting, everyone saying how wonderful it is, and women thinking, "Some shithead will grope me on there".

It's shocking that this can happen. British has coped without this gender segregation for centuries - why now?

It's so depressing and just legitimises the idea that men can't control themselves.

Again, I think this is perhaps an area of common concern with socialism.

Our future - if we even have one - will not be one where everyone zips about in driverless electric cars. It will be one where mass transit plays a much larger role. And mass transit, the way it is now, is not good enough. Half the population feeling threatened, and many actually being assaulted.

I think we should suggest that men need to sit a safe behaviour test (like a driving test) and until they pass it they have to sit in their own carriage and have a curfew of say, 8pm. If they pass the test then do something shitty like groping a woman on a train it should be considered an aggravating factor.

Seriously, that makes more sense to me than suggesting women are restricted and segregated from men when men are the ones that can't behave. Ffs.

vestal, my idea would be to use guards + cctv + prosecution. Having a guard makes a difference because they can call for the BTP from the train and have them waiting at the next station. CCTV would ensure that offences had sufficient evidence for prosecution. In terms of preventing crime, prosecution is hugely important - the more likely a crime is to be prosecuted the less likely it is to be committed in the first place.

This three pronged approach is broadly what has happened in and around football stadiums in recent years. It has worked to improve behaviour and societal attitudes (i.e. those of football fans themselves) are changing. I see no reason why it couldn't work for dealing with sexual assault on trains.

I grew up in London so would travel on trains and tubes all the time, if there all women carriages at that time I would have used them wherever possible, the level of harassment, flashing, groping etc. has to be experienced to be believed. Even as a young looking 13 year old, unmistakably a child, I experienced it.

I still think it is a bad idea though, scared women can huddle together on a single carriage because men can't be trusted, and if they brave the mixed carriages (because they won't all fit on one carriage!) then those problematic men will assume she was asking for it. I suppose it seems like an easy and cheap solution, so much simpler than tacking the behavior of certain men, behavior that is already illegal.

I think there should be male only carriages as they are the problem. And curfews and ban them drinking. It's male violence so let's put the responsibility on them.

But yes, this 100%

I would use one if they existed. I have been sexually assaulted on trains more than I care to remember.

Obviously there shouldn't be a need for them at all, but that's a whole different story isn't it.

I think there should be male only carriages as they are the problem. And curfews and ban them drinking. It's male violence so let's put the responsibility on them.

Logical, rational, practical. Also solves the problem.

And people's faces when you suggested it tells you exactly where women stand in society.

I think there should be male only carriages as they are the problem. And curfews and ban them drinking. It's male violence so let's put the responsibility on them.

I agree that it is far, far more preferable to address male violence, but am glad that Corbyn is raising all women carriages as an issue because it makes people realise that a significant number of men behave so appallingly on trains that this is even being considered.

Until men stop being a fucking pest to women, women will need all female facilities, whether it's gyms, swimming sessions or trains.

The train equivalent to a women only toilet would be to run a train that was exclusively for women - no men on it at all.

I'm fairly certain that male commuters would be upset if they were banned from getting on every other train that ran during rush hour.

Ok, so difference is I suppose that other sex segregated areas are about dignity (hospitals / toilets / changing rooms etc) or enabling (women's only swimming sessions, women's refuges) and some may be about shared experience (women only groups) and I guess that they are asked for and campaigned for by women.

The train thing has been suggested by a man and is also effectively restricting women. It's not about dignity, or enabling women to travel, or a a shared experience, it's about segregating them form potentially abusive males.

The first paragraph are all broadly positive response, the latter is a negative?

Glosswitch on women only train carriages
www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2017/08/women-only-train-carriages-are-just-way-ensuring-more-spaces-are-male

There are separate swim sessions for groups such as women only groups, religious groups, and people with disabilities and disfigurements. Without them, many of those people would not be able to participate in swimming.

There is no reason for men and women to be segregated on a train as they both use the train for the same thing in the same way and wear clothes to do so as their is no need for privacy. the only reason is protection from male violence.

The toilet thing is different because men use urinals and don't have periods and both sexes prefer privacy around their genitals.

The women's only swimming seems to be about religious observances around here. Not sure if that's the same everywhere.

The train, public transport is a means to get to work. To take part in life. A means, indeed often the only means, to contribute and participate. To travel and live.

You can't just take the word space, and arbitrarily assign meaning and effect to it. Each space is different.

I'm sure women many might thoroughly enjoy a woman only carriage. That's not the point. The point is it's designed to stop men from attacking them. In public. On their way to work.

Having a woman only swimming session is something you opt into. Creating a woman only carriage means you are opting out. Of normal, everyday life, because of the threat to your safety.

Oh fuck that shit.

So with the train carriage thing would it be ok if an equal number of carriages were male only /female only? Is the issue that only one carriage was going to be female other?

Despite having paid the same fair as men who have access to all the rest

In a female only session in a pool you have access to the whole pool and the gym and the sauna etc

A more relevant comparison would he all women restricted to one lane only

A train carriage is a public space

But so is a swimming pool... I can see that it is a ridiculous idea, but Im trying to find a way to explain it to hard of thinking people like me

FFS. Thoroughly depressing. Don't teach your daughter to sit out of sight on a train, teach your son not to grope.

A train carriage is a public space. We arent expecting to do anything private in there such as take our clothes off.

Apologies in advance...

But why is women's carriage different to a women's toilet or swimming session etc?

I know that it is different, but aren't I can't figure out how to articulate why?

SomethingOnce

No, no, no. We must just simply not go out. We must stay in the house, catering to the whims of men everywhere, and know our place.

After all, it's the only way to stay safe. We are completely responsible for the decisions of men.