Is prostitution rape?

Kind of like why we don't allow people to buy and sell kidneys, only donate them

So you want to deprive poor families of potentially life changing money?

Kind of like why we don't allow people to buy and sell kidneys, only donate them

Well yes, but - if we found out that someone has sold a kidney, we would prosecute the buyer for buying it, but we wouldn't assume that the buyer had held the seller down and ripped out the kidney against his/her will. So that analogy is more like the Nordic model.

Kind of like why we don't allow people to buy and sell kidneys, only donate them

Yes, this. And in the same way we don't allow women to be paid to be surrogate mothers. Kidneys and other organs can't be sold, and wombs can't be rented, but UK law says vaginas can because men's need for sex is so much stronger than another woman's need for a child or someone dying of kidney failure, and is so much more important than the woman selling sex, who was likely abused to start with, who will likely end up with PTSD and a drug habit as a result of her 'choice' to sell sex? What a load of horseshit.

Amú way Manchester, apart from your noble attempt to highlight the inconsistencies (as you see them, from your vast reserves of ignorance of feminism) in thinking that women can do whatever they like with their bodies and consent not being updated for purchase, what is your actual personal interest in not calling prostitution what it is?

Most prostitues no more freely consent to sex with punters than very poor people freely consent to sell a kidney. Buying either should be illegal.

If both parties consented to it, then it's not rape. If they're forced into it by a pimp then yes it is rape. Granted, the woman might not want to sell sex

Granted the woman might not want to sell sex? So in what sense is she consenting?

No.

If both parties consented to it, then it's not rape. If they're forced into it by a pimp then yes it is rape. Granted, the woman might not want to sell sex, but obviously, there's other steps before that. Generally, a lot of women turn to prostitution because of drug use, and I think the lines become hazy if someone offered drugs for sex. But if a womans chosen to work in the sex trade, then she can still decided who she wants to and who she doesn't want to work with.

When you think about it, it's utterly extraordinary that we have this multi million£ business involving the degradation of millions of women (oh, and the enrichment and delight of a handful of women) all because men think they have an inalienable right to sex. Just wierd.

I think once money changes hands then the concept of consent is compromised

Kind of like why we don't allow people to buy and sell kidneys, only donate them

A succinct way of putting it.

Err. ...okay?

What Gone posted is RadFem101. If you bothered to do any of your own research you would know that.

You bet you should be thankful she can still be arsed to try and educate you.

I also need to type faster as my posts are being crossed

@anyfucker care to elaborate or are you just going to make wild acusations.

@Gonegoneggone thank you. That really incite full. I just sense some of the posts seem to be women criticising women for making their own choices which is counterproductive. Society won't get its shit together if those that are being disadvantaged are too busy laying into each other. Perhaps I'm just to much of an idealist. But again, thank for taking the time to post.

Men like you, Manc.

You are the crux of the problem.

Women's bodies aren't objects. When will you understand that?

I do understand that and you are missing the point. If somebody consents to offering a service in exchange for payment, that is obviously not rape as the person agreed to perform said service in exchange for said price.

And fk my bloody typos

Agree with it's. Criminalise the buyers. And the porn producers.

And thanks chief (that sounds so natural)

This is not as compelling and argument as you might imagine.

Again your jumping to conclusions. I never said it was a compelling argument just an obvious consiquence.

Manclif you will find the radfems position is that punters are the rapists. No one is judging women. They have autonomy over their body and selling that autonomy leaves them without it. Women do this if they are desoerate or because of our social conditioning that teaches women their bodies are for mens pleasure. Radfems aren't going to tell individual women they are bad for working in prostitution. They look at things on a social level. Choices don't occur in a vacum, we are all highly influential by socialisation and that's the patterns radfems look at.

Same way they would challenge how women don't breastfeed because they feel squeamish about a baby sucking on their boob, or how they won't bf in public because they feel it's indecent. No rad fem would have a go at an individual woman fir these choices, her body her choice, but they would challenge the socialisation that teaches women breasts exist for male pleasure.

Same for all the public hair threads, women's body women's choice, but rad fems would look at why women are taught to make male pleasing choices, not take an individual's choice away from her.

Same with abortion- rad fems fully support a women's right to terminate for whatever reason, but they wouldn't be all laddy da about the fact so many more female fetuses are aborted than male. Looking at the reasons why this is, challenging the socialisation and rhetoric behind aborting female fetuses isn't about taking away a woman's autonomy over her body including the legal protection to abort as many female fetuses as she chooses.

Does that explain it ok?

Exactly. If you consent to sell someone your laptop, they haven't stolen your laptop.

Women's bodies aren't objects. When will you understand that?

I think adult women and men, should absolutely be able to choose to sell sex. However, I feel that it should not be legal for people to buy it.

Exactly.

So what IS the crux of the matter in you opinion?

Always, always the sex industry proponents bring it back to women's behaviour and choices. Conveniently ignoring the crux of the matter.

So how does this sit with the argument put on a recent thread that women can choose what to do with their own bodies? Are you saying women should not be allowed to choose to have sex with someone for money? Would that not contradict the backbone of feminism which is the ability to for a woman to choose?

I think adult women and men, should absolutely be able to choose to sell sex. However, I feel that it should not be legal for people to buy it.

No.
People just like to be dramatic.
Prostitution is seedy, and certain parts illegal, but it's not rape

You can consent and be paid for something. One doesn't negate the other. I consent to paid work. I am not coerced into it

Exactly. If you consent to sell someone your laptop, they haven't stolen your laptop.