No more girls and boys; can our children go gender free? BBC 2 tonight

*He has touched on the boys being very competitive and that they had far more words to describe anger than love. He also mentioned that 95% of the prison population is male

I know he's touched on it. I wonder if there'll be any discussion about why and to see if that behaviour can also be changed.* The why was when they asked the boys why and the answer was because they don't cry or show emotions. It builds up and that's why they feel angry all the time. One of the boys talking about their built up anger and trying to break his bed.

Also, most of them associated not crying to strength and being strong. It was not only the body strength that counted as strong. Both girls and boys agreed with this. I also, think it's the reason why Riley could not handle it when he was the only one who could not hit the target. He had seen himself as the strongest.

The girls said they just cry. They let it out.

There was a thread recently where I stated that emotional wellbeing of boys need tackling because it does spill out in other ways when they can't express it. The majority of people on that thread especially the op thought that by considering this as an issue was pandering to male needs and being nice to the menz. To me I see emotions as big part of tackling patriarchy. Emotions on both girls/women, men / boys. Anger in men is one of the biggest problem that affects women's wellbeing. The difference between being safe and being raped, attacked, abused, killed and so on.

It's no different to how teachers should have been taught about teaching children from different groups to make them feel included and to address the unconscious bias in the curriculum and from society as a whole.

Role models, books, looking at history teaching, the language used, how children are treated in class...

There has always been a bias in the classrooms and in society.

Thephoneywar

I completely agree. I think the language policing in our society at the moment is ridiculous. Particularly with regards to self expression and 'identity'.

I would love to see more education on how to train one's mind to think critically. Outside the box.

It infuriates me when people parrot phrases and write-off analysis with sweeping statements, but no backup argument.

I realise that many, or most arguments have an emotional element to them, but without logic and rationality, they quickly disintegrate.

But I think you're coming at this from the back end, not the front end.

I don't believe this is imposing an ideology as a social experiment. Despite what the programme makers think! Or intend.

I see this as a undoing years, centuries really, of a societal structure that has been rigourously imposed, 'from the top down'.

Most women work, many women work in business, are CEOs, journalists, MPs, doctors. But only because women pushed it. They said we can. And surely, you must know, they fought tooth and nail to be given these opportunities, because society rigourously enforced the idea that they couldn't.

And although we have come a long way, a quick glance at the statistics shows that we are by no means there.

Even five minutes on the feminist threads shows you how women still struggle with the glass ceiling, how they are struggling to make choices because of what society expects.

The idea that women can have it all, actually means that women must do it all.

These expectations are drilled in to children, from the minute they are born. Sometimes consciously, often unconsciously.

I don't see this project as enforcing anything. I see it removing the limitations for both boys and girls, so they can choose, anything, any time, with no outside pressure to conform.

Critical thinking cannot work, or will struggle to work, unless you remove unconscious bias.

persona

Ive not watcged it but will do with my tween and teen dds as it will be good for discussion. DD2 just finished Y6 and throughout school had a male PE teacher who wasn't a qualified teacher - just a young sports coach. He'd ask for some ' strong boys' to help him carry equipment and definitely favoured the boys and boys sports over girls displaying a very laddish personal whenever I saw him swaggering around the playground. I complained to the HT about the girls' sports provision and got nowhere as it seemed this sports coach could do no wrong in her eyes.

Around 5/6 years ago Ofsted visited my dd's primary school and wrote in their report that the teaching wasn't 'boy orientated enough' because they'd seen a year 3 class all having to dress up....... as Anglo Saxons. wtf? I guess they thought it too girly to have a boy wear a tunic. All the children loved those historic dress up days.

Basically, opinions aren't formed in a vacuum. Opinions are formed by what we are exposed to.

This is widening the exposure.

@Thephoneywar that would only work if your kids were living with a bubble. With no influence from social media, tv, peers and others around them.

DD won't accept anyone telling her she can't do something because she's a girl as that's what I taught her. However, she came home from school saying things like boys can't wear hairclips,play with dolls etc because they're boys, as that's what she has learned from her peers.
Her best friends used to be boys,now they're not anymore as they dont play with girls. The change happened in a year,they're only 5!!
You are kidding yourself if you truly believe your kids won't be influenced by others.

and for them to form their own opinion

How do people form opinions? Opinions are formed by being exposed to a wide variety of views, messages, experiences and how we are treated.

All this programme is doing is giving different views away from what's being done before. Exposing children to different role models, showing the children what they can do and changing the typical teaching view.

I don't understand how this is brainwashing. Telling girls that they can strong and that boys can be sensitive isn't really a radical agenda.

If we could bolster girls self esteem and reduce male aggression then society would be far happier.

I don't want my kid's heads filled with this rubbish. I want my children to have a wide variety of views and ideas and for them to form their own opinions as they mature into adults. Stop trying to brainwash them

Some people would argue that the current position is brainwashing children into forming stereotypes and is conditioning them.

@Datun,

I am resistant to this and any other agenda that polices language and free thought and seeks to artificially control people and engineer specific outcomes. This applies to this gender/feminist issue, to trans issues, religious issues etc.

I believe in teaching critical thought and allowing children to develop their own unique perspectives on the world, not having a top down social engineering agenda.

I don't want my kid's heads filled with this rubbish. I want my children to have a wide variety of views and ideas and for them to form their own opinions as they mature into adults. Stop trying to brainwash them.

I watched 5 minutes and turned off

So you missed the bit about girls under estimating their abilities?

The girl crying when she realised how good she was?

JoNapot

What was it you disagreed with?

I watched 5 minutes and turned off.

The BBC used to have interesting science programming.

I don't think that you encourage girls self esteem and confidence by artificially enforcing language and thought on people. If you want children to be genderless drones that only confrom to your ideology then keep at it

But at the same time, girl's self esteem is being damaged by the language, thoughts, books and messages in schools and society.

Are you ok with that?

I know of a little boy who is just so agile that he would be utterly amazing at gymnastics. Shame his dad won't let him, because, you know ... "gay".

snef

I completely agree the biological differences should not be blurred. It's nonsense. Women are the ones who menstruate, get pregnant, gestate, give birth, breastfeed.

But that doesn't mean, that they are the only ones who can run a house, pick up the laundry, do the cooking...you get the picture.

It's not really about appearance, it's about roles. There are many ways of identifying and reinforcing those roles. One is, dress. It is only superficial, but nonetheless, it identifies a role, more than a preference. Hence little boys who love princess outfits, because they are sparkly, pink and appealing, but that's a bad thing. Because the role of a boy is indicated by rufty tufty jeans and sneakers.

When teenage girls want to wear cropped tops and tight skirts, they are indicating a role. They may not realise it, but they are. Their role is to be sexually alluring and decorative.

Nothing wrong in that, but reinforcing the idea that this is their only role, does the damage. There is a really, really fine line between this is a preference, something I like, and this is what I am for.

If the roles were sorted, the clothes wouldn't matter.

@orlantina

I don't think that you encourage girls self esteem and confidence by artificially enforcing language and thought on people. If you want children to be genderless drones that only confrom to your ideology then keep at it.

Gendered parenting is policing language and behaviour. It contributes towards a society where men feel they cant ask for help and have a high suicide rate.

I also find that surely by now if your boy wants to do ballet no one really cares. Ie maybe even if they did care you can still do it.

My boss's son has a male friend who did ballet. Until the day he wore his tutu(?) outside of ballet and was mercilessly bullied. He hasn't gone back to ballet.

Maybe just anecdotal, but I find that much more likely than simple acceptance as you propose is the case.

snef

But it's not about the choices she or he makes when grown up. It is how you treat them at a very early age. You ingrain stereotypes from such an early age. Your direct the interests of the children. The toys you give them affect brain development. The words you subconsciously use when speaking to little girls and little boys have an affect.

Undoubtedly you are right the sexes are different. But that doesn't mean we cannot try to minimize those (possibly damaging) differences.