No more girls and boys; can our children go gender free? BBC 2 tonight

Without being rude - how come you weren't aware of the "hidden curriculum" before?

The messages teachers give out in the classroom are so important - BME pupils, LGBT pupils, girls etc etc. This should have been common knowledge.

Hi first of all can I introduce myself I am Graham Andre from the show 'No More Boys and Girls' I have discovered your thread about the show this morning and have read with interest (it has taken quite some time as you can imagine).

Firstly can I apologise for the terms of endearment, I didn't realise at the time how gender specific they were and what an effect this can have on how children perceive themselves. You will be pleased to know that I rarely if ever let 'mate', 'love' etc slip out now.

The project was an amazing thing to be part of and has totally changed how I teach in the class and now make sure that whatever topic that we are doing we look at the roles of gender within it. I really do think that gender neutral teaching and language should be a part of the curriculum, if it enables girls to have greater confidence in themselves and allows boys to express their feelings it can only be a good thing?

Again thank you for watching the show and I have really enjoyed reading your thoughts, I do hope that you enjoy the second episode.

If you have any questions you would like to ask me about the project fire away, although I cannot give out spoilers for the second episode :-)

Graham Andre'

Looking forward to next weeks. I can only imagine the messages that the children are exposed to at home.

Thanks for that link Datun. Fortunately there are some good comments under the article to balance the batshit. Someone commented about his "stinking cunts" remark, saying something along the lines of "so you hate vaginas but you still want a rubbish version of one, I don't know who you hate more, women or yourself". Good point but I reckon women come top of the list.

Thanks Datun. It sounds like he is truly repulsed by women. Yet wants to be one. Paging Hannibal Lecter...

Ereshkigal

I don't know, I didn't see it. But judging by the person who posted it, it would've been an incriminating video of the guy who posted that rant.

andintothefire

Excellent points.

I agree with the post by reallyanotherone on the previous page.

I also think that many people who are gay go into particular professions partly because they feel comfortable in them or because it is socially accepted. It's isn't unusual to be gay in, say, the art, fashion or theatre world and those worlds create safer, accepting spaces for people to participate in as they grow up and explore their sexuality. It's not logical to jump to an immediate conclusion that gay men innately like fashion and art more than straight men. There are too many societal factors at play.

Similarly, it seems almost too obvious to state that many women are put off professions where they will be outnumbered by men or feel they will have to adopt more "masculine" traits to succeed (and girls often mistakenly believe they do not have the necessary skills). The preponderance of female nurses or care workers isn't about women innately being more caring. Those are options that are made easier for girls (as opposed to being a firefighter or engineer) by societal attitudes and conditioning.

It's tough being outnumbered by men in every significant meeting I have at work. More often than not I am the only woman in the room. It's also a huge challenge having few successful female role models in my area of specialism. I still struggle with how to adapt to the expectations in my line of work, and how to balance my reluctance to lose my female characteristics with my concern that many of those characteristics have been socially conditioned.

What was the YouTube video about Datun? I missed it.

Wow that gendertrender comment! Some of them really despise women don't they?

I did clarify in my comment 'at least in every artistic experience I've had'
For me it was true that most of the men were openly gay or bi. I only know this because I went through a lot of effort trying to find a boyfriend amongst them and spent one valentines day with a gay guy instead as by then I'd given up finding a straight guy. My actual tutor was gay.
As I said, I speak from my own experience and found the type of guys there very much embraced the gay scene almost to the point I wished that they'd just go along to events without forcing it upon people. (Trust me when you've had a friend that previously spoke two pitches lower it does sometimes get a bit tedious to adjust when they choose to speak two pitches higher all of a sudden).
Anyway not stereotyping that was my actual experience.

Thelilywhite

Yes, it is. And that type of narcissistic fury does tend to gravitate towards that site.

It's partly their 'take no prisoners/I don't give a fuck what you think' attitude. But also, because they are incredibly comprehensive in unearthing the incriminating background of a lot of the objectors.

(I.e. A video from YouTube they posted, which got deleted very quickly, as they said it would. And a photo, further down, of that particular commentor).

Datun i mean the one you pointed out obvs not your own!

That comments awful Datun
I watched the programme yeterday and was very upset by the girls low self esteem and the boys lack of emotional literacy although not surprised. Will be interested to see how it works out.

Was I the only one who instinctively thought of male dancers when the children were asked to draw a ballet dancer? I immediately thought of Carlos Acosta and a recent interview I read with Xander Parish

I don't think of ballet dancers being anything other than both sexes.

Which comment?

Yes - I agree re Helen Sharman. We are also getting better at celebrating female athletes, although in most other sports women's teams are much less viable.

Helen Sharman was great. I mention her when I have the opportunity.

Was I the only one who instinctively thought of male dancers when the children were asked to draw a ballet dancer? I immediately thought of Carlos Acosta and a recent interview I read with Xander Parish.

I think it shows how powerful strong role models (and the media in promoting them) can be in subverting stereotypes. Billy Elliot is also probably one of the most famous films about ballet dancing, at least in recent years.

Now we need more female magicians, comedians and astronauts to become more visible and better promoted!

Looks like transactivists might be highly pissed off with this programme.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/

Six comments in.

Initially I thought this programme was going to be a ridiculous politically correct farce but it was anything but. I was appalled at the way the girls thought of themselves.
I have never let a woman stop me doing anything from motorbiking to working in a male dominated region of the NHS.
If I had a daughter I'd definitely discourage "princess" thinking. And that teacher calling all of the girls love and darling was appalling.

Sorry, but that is utter rubbish. A "certain type" of man goes into the arts because it's socially acceptable for effeminate men to do "girl things

Actually I think you are both talking rubbish here.

Especially when at agricultural shows and you want to buy a quad bike
You remembered orlantina I never did buy a new quad bike

I always find the evolution of computers and sex interesting.

In the beginning, computing was very much a womans occupation. Akin to typing and secretarial work. Many of the first computer scientists were women. Then it's scope was realised and slowly it became a mans job. This was reinforced with the first home computers- they were very much childrens toys, and were marketed toward boys, as an alternative to the typewriters that girls had.

Ff a few years and entrants on the new fangled computer science degrees were pretty mixed. Until the girls realised that a childhood spent on trypewriters while the boys were playing and learning about computers meant they were very far behind, and started dropping out in droves.

Football too. In the uk it's highly desirable for boys, girls who play it are "tomboys". In the us, however, there are millions of dads horrified that their son wants to play soccer "like a girl", and think it will turn sons gay.