No more girls and boys; can our children go gender free? BBC 2 tonight

I was wondering because someone I lived with at uni did a degree in education and would wander round the house swearing at the reasons women were denied education (mostly to do with their womb shrivelling up) but never did go into teaching. She could be training people

@grahamandre I have to say it was pretty brave of you to put yourself out there in the firing line for this programme.

It must have been worse than an Ofsted

It may have done Terrylene I was a nanny first then became a Learning Support Assistant. I just wasn't aware of the impact my words would have and how they were a constant reminder to the children of their gender. I am so glad to have been involved in this project and to have gained this knowledge, hopefully it will influence other teachers and look at their own classroom environment and teaching.

thinK, that is ...

@grahamandre - do you thing that coming through a caring route to into teaching may have affected the way you relate to the children (ie the Sweetpea stuff )

I listened to the discussion on WH this morning. It was very interesting - especially reactions to Steven......

Looking forward to Wednesday, Graham.

Datun What this man is doing is a very good idea. He just needs to understand the reason why gender roles are there in the first place, though. But you would have to understand feminism to know that.
I'm sorry to admit that I'm unsure as to why gender roles are here in the first place. I'd very much like to understand feminism to know this - can you point me in the right direction please?

Thank you all for your views, they are so interesting to read. A poster earlier asked about if it did have any positive impact on boys' being able to express their emotions....unfortunately you will have to wait until Wednesday to see if it has or not, can't go giving away spoilers now

I hope that something long term will happen too, in fact I think all connected with the show hope this happens.

Witch Yes, it's a waste of talent individually, and also an inefficient way to run society if half of your population is taught they're crap at certain tasks and the other half at others.

I've personally found remembering that as a right shorty I have gravity on my side to be helpful. I've been in a couple of hairy situations travelling home late after work, and knowing that a man's size can be used to my advantage has been important.

Rita I really agree with you. I don't care that someone else could carry more than me and walk quicker while doing it, I just want to carry a load of compost home to do some gardening. I don't want to win a gold medal, I want to shift a wardrobe. I don't need to be the best, I just need to be able to give it a go, and know my limits.

Basket
It is amazing what can be done, by using your brain plus strength.

But unfortunately at lot of it is learnt through practical trial and error. Which seeing the girls think so little of themselves at such a young age is awful, as they will never be confident in even giving something ago.

It reminds me of the martial art wing chun(I think) it was the one Bruce Lee learnt. The history of it is that it was developed my women out in the country in order to protect themselves from raiders and such.

The art was based on using your own balance to then use your opponent's strength against them. It was very effective so the technique was kept almost secret only being passed down through families. (Probably because once the men learnt it and understood it, the women would lose their advantage)

Yes, Witch. I've had 2 delivery men huff and puff over how heavy a piece of furniture or an appliance is, and then moved it myself easily.

I've also had a bunch of men give up on moving a massive filing cabinet, and moved it alone, after tilting each side enough to shove a sheet under it, then hardly needed any strength to push it along.

Some techniques I needed to be taught, but others are just knacks I've discovered through trial and error. The biggest issue I have is being short - as longer arms really make moving bigger things easier, and I have to lift larger items higher on my body than a tall person, to keep them off the ground or away from my knees. When I was pregnant I found the main issue was having a bump where I'd usually be carrying something, so even a very light box was a pain because it was right in front of my face.

YY. I really feel that society's insistence on being the best all the time is missing the point that physical strength is about so much more than just winning.

Does being physically strong make you more confident?

Sort of......
It's about having belief in yourself, as with their girls in the program, they lacked the confidence in their ability, and shocked themselves at how strong they actually were. So the confidence could come from knowing they are capable of doing stuff, which previously they would stay away from even attempting.

I worked/helped out on farms and stables yards from 6 onwards. I am still physically strong and skilled, even after having years off doing physical jobs. When i have gone back to a physically demanding job I've pushed myself, whilst cursing being unfit, but after a day or 2 of aches and pains I am back up to speed.

I think I have muscle memory so although unused for a while it quickly comes back.

Also from doing physical things from a young age, you learn techniques for doing things, using the object weight and your balance.

I don't think I'm explaining this very well......

Ok an example, when moving heavy boxes/ sofas about a room, some people (men and women) would struggle to push /drag /lift up said item. But you can (and I have) moved them with one hand or if very lazy a push with a well placed knee. Or walked a large item that is way to big/heavy/ to carry.

I use to think everyone knew these techniques, Many do. But lots don't, and yes the majority have been women.

It may do, Rita. Although it's likely that given an equal chance to work on strength, a lot of people would outstrip me easily - I'm 5'1".

I will have a go at most physical tasks, which makes me more self-reliant than people who are daunted by them. And I feel more confident when I know I'm in control and not waiting on anyone else.

Sometimes, though, I just think 'this is bloody hard, where is my cup of tea?'

Actually I think being strong can make kids feel confident. I hear girls say ' I can't do that' so many times in relation to gymnastics, football, climbing etc and that spills over into other things. They can't do it as they have never been encouraged to try. They haven't pushed themselves to see what they are capable of. They opt out for fear of failure...

Does being physically strong make you more confident?

I don't think it is, lily. Women aren't using their strength as an effect of conditioning in childhood. We're the same strength-wise up until puberty, but while puberty makes men stronger, it doesn't make women weak.

It's not about being the strongest, it's about being strong enough for a particular task. And as a pp said, no one stops pregnant women lifting their toddlers, when a non-pregnant woman isn't seen as capable of carrying a box that weighs less than a toddler.

Whether women or men are stronger is completely beside the point!

I didn't know that, brasty - excellent fact.

I've always done physical work, it was one of the many advantages to growing up with a single mum, we just had to learn to do everything. Consequently I'm much better at shifting heavy stuff than a lot of men I know.

Men on average can lift heavier loads, but women on average have greater stamina. So if we're both carrying the heaviest thing we can lift, I'll likely outlast the man. So when I'm shifting a sofa to a different part of a building, it will rarely be me needing to put it down for a rest.

You don't have to be the strongest person in the world, you just have to be strong enough to do a job safely. My primary school had boys stack the chairs at the end of lunch, when, not only were we physically the same at that age, but even after puberty, when the young men would in average be stronger than the young women, so what? The men can carry 5 chairs, and women 4? Even if you can carry only 1 at a time you wouldn't be that much slower, as you'd be moving way quicker with only 1 than someone else with a whole stack.

Our primary is large, vibrant, multicultural but also depressingly sexist. I have seen in time and time again. I have a sporty girl and a sporty and sensitive son. They are subjected to comments about their gender frequently. Even uniform can be an issue - the girls can wear trousers and shorts etc but most don't as 'they are for boys'.

You know Waterloo Bridge was built totally by women during the war. Very few men do these kind of jobs, but women can and do do them as well. But then I am friends with mainly very sporty women, some of whom are very strong and have worked in very physically demanding jobs.

There are very few things that require an extreme of strength. Obviously they exist, but they are few and far between.

Gardening, farming, digging, DIY, mechanics, etc. A small fraction of these will require the brute strength that only a man can provide. And let's face it, plenty of men don't have that anyway.

It is true after puberty that boys have increased upper body strength. But teenage girls and women can be strong too. Some of my family were brought up in farms, and the girls did heavy work as well. They were very strong, because they were using and building up their muscles. I was not very strong as I was not doing this.

Yy. A boy (or man) who sits in front of the tv all day will never be as strong as a girl (or woman) who is at the gym or doing physical exercise every day. Puberty or no.

There's a great video on youtube somewhere of a 10 year old gymnast beating a group of adult, male, US marines at press ups.

Like i said upthread, my dd is physically the strongest in her class because she trains 2 hours a day. Yet it is always assumed the boys are stronger.

Orlantina - maybe there's not much on the teachers' forum about it because they're either on holiday and prefer to forget about school for a week or two, or they're so busy planning, trying to catch up with new initiatives, assembling resources, tidying up drawers, ordering stationery, reading, making seating plans and generally girding their loins that they don't have time to read and comment on webites.