No more girls and boys; can our children go gender free? BBC 2 tonight

Lexi 😩

I watched with suspicion to me it was more of the trans agenda masked as an innocuous documentary about equality. I thought it would be one way to challenge trans agenda. They challenged the thought that our brains are the same.
They have also challenged the fact that boys and girls can both play with same toys.
They have tackled the issues surrounding gender and how society treat the two groups.

I think this has tackled more trans issues to be honest. It will hopefully give parents whose children are trans, ideas on how to handle it. They should accept their children for who they are. Boys who love pink, dolls make up and so on without placing a label for being in the wrong body. The ga t that it's not about what's wrong with your brain. It's not about being born in the wrong Jody or brain but a look towards social conditioning.

Important to have books where girls save the day, but also important to have books where boys deal with friendship issues.

Thank you TheWitchAndTrevor. I will watch it. Save all you lot from being my own personal reviewers.

Yes re the girls only schools- I believe boys actually do better in mixed schools and girls do better in girls only schools.

I've seen strong evidence of much more confidence in girls from only girl schools.

I wonder if that should be part of the debate long term

Another thing that got me - which may had some of you with boiling blood, was the whole issue of books.

Firstly he's saying : 'they all think a ballerina, has to be a girl, but there is no reason they should think that way" - err they got it from every single book they've seen.

Then - he cleared out all non gender neutral books, and replaced them with ones we're supposed to think are brilliant. "In this one the princess saves the prince! That proves girls can be brave too!"; "In this one the princess has super powers and rescues every body, wouldn't you all like to be her?"

He's acting like these books, which simply tell the most stereotypical boys story, but which now have replaced the lead boy with a girl - (who is still a bloody princess), are the simple answer to the problem. !!!

I saw he cleared out a big bunch of 'rainbow fairies' books. Admittedly they are a bit stereotyped, but they may have more about female friendships etc. I'd rather that than saying to our daughters that no - they're wrong- you need to be reading boys adventure stories instead and imagining yourself as the hero with superpowers.

Crumbs1 I think you are missing the point with your fence post example. Sure boys and girls start off with small differences but those gaps are widened by society's differing expectations.

If you always ask your son and not your daughter to put up fences/lift chairs/put furniture together etc you are giving him the practice but her not. You are widening the gap.

And consider it is not always about giving the job to the most capable but about giving everyone the chance to hone their skills and develop confidence in their own physical abilities.

So much of what is innate can either be improved or lost with practice. So we should be pushing girls to be the best they can be rather than saying they'll never be as good as boys.

Datun

I highly recommend you watch it on catch up. It was everything I could have wished it to be. I can't comment on the next one as haven't seen it yet. But so far he has touched on many issues, including the how adults interact with babies based on what sex they believe them to be.

He talked about taking a wider look into why more men end up in prison, why so few women are CEO.

Yes. I don't know what I've done to make them like that. He's very good at sport and wants to learn how to be better. It's only been encouraged by his interest. He also loves sylvannian families so we are trying not to gender stereotype. I also don't know why my daughter often thinks she isn't good at anything except drama and art. It's really tricky.

A lot of complaints about sexism in primary schools are how feminised they are. How they are designed to favour girls over boys (majority female teachers, prioritise sitting still and working quietly over physical boisterousness) and that this leads inexorably to girls achieving better results than boys.

Yes re the comment about your daughter in the class with 80% boys. I thought it would be interesting to see how differently girls would react to all the 'tests' in the programme if they were at a girls only school.

Especially the final test about line your self up strongest to weakest. The body language of the girls in that part was uncomfortable to watch. They were mostly hunched or chewing nervously on their fingers - exactly like my dd a lot of the time. I can imagine if it were an all girls school they'd be more relaxed in that test in particular.

Whatshouldmyusernamebe

It's difficult, isn't it? Winning is rewarded. Which is fine. It leads to a competitive edge.

But it's not fine if they can't handle losing, too.

Ekphrasis

Thank you very much for that explanation. And for your reassurance. I think I will watch it, I'll catch up tomorrow.

I watched most of it. Thought it was good. I consider myself to be a feminist but my DD aged almost 10 has low self esteem and my just turned 6 year old son would have reacted similarly to Riley. He's hugely competitive despite being told that it's the taking part that counts etc. He wants to be the best and always win. Not sure how to address either of these issues. I boost my daughter up constantly but interestingly she is in a class which is 80% boys.

Its taken me a long time to recognise that the trans agenda (not actual trans people, just the tiny percentage with an agenda) is totally against the breaking down of gender stereotypes, but it really seems it is.

So this work is very much opposing the trans agenda.

I want an end to male violence more than anything - but I genuinely believe making girls and boys change separately when they are primary school age is adding to the problem, not solving it. It is othering human beings from each other for no reason.

I was on a thread recently where people were laughing at the idea of picking up gender stereotypes from school.

Hopefully people will see this documentary and acknowledge what a huge problem this really is.

Yes it is shocking that teachers have no training in recognising stereotyping or unconscious bias. Totally shocking. So can we now move to the doing something about it phase?

(disclaimer: i have had quite a stressful week)

I actually cried during this because it breaks my heart to see what girls think of themselves and how much boys struggle to express themselves.

I suspect it's going to get worse when they delve into their home lives next week. I think it'll be especially interesting to see if they speak to riley's parents. I would hope that his response to not completing the strength test was atypical and there are other factors at play.

Ekphrasis

I've read the comments, but can't bring myself to sit through the programme.

Maintaining that there is no difference between boys and girls prior to puberty is definitely not part of the trans agenda, I agree.

Showing boys doing ballet and claiming it's perfectly natural, shoots a hole through the ideology.

What this man is doing is a very good idea. He just needs to understand the reason why gender roles are there in the first place, though. But you would have to understand feminism to know that.

He needs to understand that women are kept in line, not just by sexism, but by the threat that underpins it.

Hence the need for privacy and safety away from males when they are vulnerable.

I'm glad he talked about male violence. If anyone's got a second, perhaps they can expand?

But I realise that's not really fair, because I chose not to watch it!

Secondary sexual characteristics develop at puberty; they were careful to point out the sexes have equal strength till then.

Sport wise, the british swimming association has very clear rules on trans athletes. Basically pre puberty, they are allowed to compete in their chosen gender, as there is no advantage for either sex. Once they enter puberty, they have to submit to a yearly assesment. Once they are deemed to have a physical advantage they must compete as their biological sex.

I am a swimming coach and had reason to implement this rule. Most parents argued against it and were very suprised when the child in question only came mid pack, rather than winning by miles. They all assumed a biological boy would beat biological girls every time.

Yet we still tell primary aged children boys are stronger and better at sport.

I call all my kids sweetpea ,boys and girls. 😬
The best "tidiers" in the class are boys but 1.they make quite a show of it 2.they're so focused on tidying they forget to come to the carpet/listen to instructions,whereas the girls do their job and go sit down.
When I ask kids to help with heavier stuff (laptops,PE equipment) their sex does not come into it. I ask a kid that might need some time out of the class, or as a reward for good behaviour, or as a chance to make up for a previous transgression, a kid that might need some praise or a confidence boost,or simply a kid sitting quietly instead of the 5 that asked 20 times already.

It breaks my heart though that some of them are so (learned) sexist even at a young age . They are so engaged during PHSE /class talks and discussing differences and there's no boy this boy that,anyone can like pink and blue etc. that you think you're making a difference,but during playtime some of them instantly revert to their gender roles and insist others do too.