Upskirting - not a crime

I think most people can easily understand that it's wrong and distressing for the individual. But I think it takes a woman to really grasp the violation involved.

Men might enjoy waving their own willies at each other, but I bet if a random man snapped a covert picture of their genitals and then shared it about, they'd understand the violation well enough... it just never really seems to happen to them does it? So they don't have to care.

The media themselves sit outside sleb women's cars to get the up skirt shot in the hope she won't be wearing knickers. It's not just the weirdo down the street. It's nirmal

I think pornography is a significant factor but am not sure if it's that alone which has lead to this. It seems to be boys and men of all ages doing this (not that this means pornography isn't a factor) - see this recent case of a man targeting girls on their way to and from school: www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=concrime921.htm

At least this was prosecuted due to the ages of the victims and the content he possessed on his devices.

Who is teaching these boys/men that it's fine to violate womens' boundaries in this vile way - does it all come back to porn?

Not just weirdos and Twitter, the Daily Mail has awful things all the time.

It's abhorrent and is part of a general trend of taking photographs of women without consent to share online - this was written about in the Telegraph some time ago: www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens-life/10987816/Creep-shot-Twitter-trend-how-creeps-just-got-creepier.html

As with that, the photographs being discussed in this thread are intended to objectify, embarrass and most of all degrade women and girls. It's an exertion of power - the power of the men who take them to do this and to share in the humiliation of the womem/girls they take them of with others.

There seems to be a range of ways in which photographs posted online are used to attack and degrade girls and women. This was recently reported on in The Sunday Times but has been going on for some time: www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/baiting-the-sexual-cyber-bullying-that-targets-teenage-girls-968pbbcq8

This involves everyday photographs of girls being taken from Facebook pages and uploaded onto well known forums and social media sites, where many pile in to make sexually violent comments about the subjects and so forth. It's abhorrent and there's a high chance any girl has been subject to it from someone as it's constantly happening on certain forums where people can post completely anonymously, as well as on social media accounts dedicated to sharing them. Sorry, this isn't the specific topic of the thread but I think it's all linked - although I appreciate this isn't necessarily relevant to "upskirt" photographs being legal, which is horrific and shows a complete disregard for women and girls.

Maybe it's a crime in Scotland because there, it can happen to men too.

(Sorry, but some things are irresistible.)

So does this mean it's not a crime if they do it to children either?

This is absolutely appalling. It is a crime in Scotland and also in New Zealand. There is a petition at the end of this Evening Standard Article asking for the law to change which I have signed.

www.standard.co.uk/news/london/woman-urges-mps-to-take-action-on-upskirting-after-man-takes-photo-up-her-skirt-with-no-consequences-a3608061.html

It is also shocking to learn that the police reassured by her telling her they had made him delete the image and in doing so go rid of the evidence.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-40861875

Ugh. Seriously.

I've been constantly getting the feeling lately that a women's feelings, attitude, etc, to their bodies is so far removed from men's attitude to their bodies.

I may have trouble explaining it. Take sex for instance. A man having sex is in a position of penetration and assertiveness. A woman is more in a position of receiving and vulnerability. The acts are almost the opposite of each other.

There's something of an inherent invasion to it. Don't get me wrong, often that is part and parcel of the pleasure of the act. But nonetheless, there is a vulnerability that remains firmly in the province of the female.

And it extends to things like going to the loo. Men are quite happy peeing in front of other men. As long as it doesn't overstep the mark.

Many men indulge in a spot of light-hearted willy waving when they come out of the shower, women will often scuttle past with a towel around them.

Obviously, all those examples are generalisations, but I'm struggling to articulate what I mean.

This upskirting issue has the same flavour to it, for me.

I think most people can easily understand that it's wrong and distressing for the individual. But I think it takes a woman to really grasp the violation involved.

It's not only about viewing women as objects, it's about the failure to fully comprehend how it makes a woman feel, in its entirety.

Otherwise, why is it completely legal?

I was so shocked to find out it isnt a crime, and neither is sharing the photos.

It both is and is not a form a voyeurism

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upskirt

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyeurism