Upskirting - not a crime

This is the link Datun: www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=concrime921.htm

He was reported as some people noticed him filming/taking photographs of girls (including some of the girls themselves - a number of reports were made) and I think he was prosecuted due to the volume and that he had a previous conviction for taking "upskirt" images of girls.

It's abhorrent how regularly this happens to girls and women, worse still that it's not an offence when the victims are women (and that penalties are so light when it happens to girls).

NoLoveofMine

I don't know why, but I can't seem to find your link. Do you know why he was eventually prosecuted? Was it just a question of volume?

Also, after a quick google skim, I believe it is illegal to take upskirt photos of a child. It's called taking indecent photographs.

Although why it's not indecent when it's of a woman, I don't know. Or perhaps I do.

Unfortunately it goes on constantly and it's extremely rare anyone would be prosecuted for it. The case I linked to above with the man who was caught having taken photographs of numerous schoolgirls on buses on their way to and from school was I think only prosecuted due to taking over a hundred videos and thousands of photographs including many "upskirt" of girls in school uniforms (and even then I don't think he was given a custodial sentence). "Creepshots" of girls and women are being taken and widely shared online constantly.

Provided you can prove she's underage - if it's just an anonymous picture of her clothed bum though, ...

Icant - sharing a picture of an underage girl might well constitute an offence under the distribution of porn

I told security and was told what the boys did was not illegal but I shouldn't have taken the phone and deleted as that was. Very frustrating.

See, that's the sort of thing that makes me despair and think -God the world really doesn't give a fuck about women does it?

Deleting a picture of your underage daughter from some little pervs phone without his permission is illegal, but taking photo's of underage girls without their permission and keeping the photos - nah that's just fine.

And what is he going to do with the photo - share it on the internet for all the world to see for all eternity? Masturbate to it? doesn't matter - he's done nothing wrong, bully for him.

That's horrendous Macncheese but not surprising sadly. These images are constantly being taken of women and girls, with whole social media accounts and sections of well known forums devoted to them, including some to "creepshots" of schoolgirls specifically (not that it's acceptable when done to women). As I said, some are taken within schools and men and boys of all ages take them. It's so commonplace and intended to degrade, humiliate and objectify, as well as displaying contempt for women and girls. It's great you challenged them but abhorrent they found it all amusing and that it happens at all.

Upskirting is another level, not sure how anyone can think a situation like that in the OP shouldn't be illegal.
But as for the wider issue of vouyeurism of women - getting a glimpse of something that's hidden and private, it's very normalised in society.
People have already mentioned the tabloid's obsession with nipple slips, upskirts as some celeb is getting out of a car and the like.
But also, it's so entrenched in our popular culture most people hardly even recognise it. How many teen "coming of age" films contain a scene where the boys are trying to peek into the girl's shower?
The earliest one I remember is Gregory's Girl where the boys watch a woman undress through a window.
I've seen variations on this scene probably hundreds of times.
All portrayed as good, wholesome teenage fun, not as creepy, weird or illegal.

Today 06:42 ginandbearit

Male fantasy I bet ....

Of course . You're absolutely right.

Which is perhaps pertinent. Given women describe many experiences on MN, which some man might be copping off to, as a lurker.

All part and parcel of the same shit, really.

Pics of DD12 were taken (creep shots of her clothed bum not upskirt) when we were in Leeds recently. I was wearing my cloak of invisibility and managed to grab the phone and educate the group of young men (approx 15-18?) I also called them peados because until then they seemed to find it funny. I went thru his phone sort of daring him to grab it back, deleting maybe 30 photos of young women taken that day, all . I told security and was told what the boys did was not illegal but I shouldn't have taken the phone and deleted as that was. Very frustrating.

Male fantasy I bet ....

Male fantasy I bet ....

marieolder, the power to do what exactly?

I've talked to, including my daughter and her friends actually get a turn on when we let men have a look.

Whilst I think it's a little odd to discuss one's personal sexual proclivities with one's daughter, the key part of this is that you let them.. You are consenting.

We're not talking about a Sharon Stone Basic Instinct scenario here. Were talking about, specifically in the opening post, a young girl who was at a festival, where a man pretended to speak to her whilst he was photographing her under her skirt. He then walked away, sniggering over the photos and showing his mates. The girl was powerless to stop him. He also aggressively pursued her until she managed to find a security guard.

She was unconsenting, powerless and deliberately demeaned.

I hope you can see the difference?

How on earth can you hold the power when someone takes a photo that your not aware of and shares it without your consent? Where is any power - let alone ALL the power?

These men that you let take pictures or have a look, is this something you discuss beforehand or do you catch them in the act and think its just a laugh because you have ALL the power? Discussing it first - whatever floats your boat; catching them in the act - these men are creeps, they don't respect you and you're not the one with the power, sadly not even the power to get them arrested.

It's interesting that schools often have open staircases that teachers know boys lurk under to get an eyeful, and that at the same time school uniform policy is often quite insistent that girls wear skirts. The absolute refusal to protect teenage girls or take their feelings into account by people who have a duty of care to them is, I wish I could say 'shocking', but I think I'll go with the more realistic 'depressing'.
(I'm not suggesting that the stairs and skirts are a perverts conspiracy, just that that's 2 ways that schools are designed that make girls vulnerable - and clearly in some cases they work together to give teenage boys unfettered voyeur access)

classy.

The difference is, Marie that you (and your DD and her friends ) have consented to let men look up your skirt and photograph you. I'm pretty relaxed about most sexual activity provided that it is by mutual consent. Women who are photographed covertly have had their ability to agree to participate taken away from them.

There were also some commentators who said if the girl doesn't know about it, what difference does it make?

Horrendous comment, excusing the objectification and degradation of girls and women and suggesting it's perfectly fine for boys and men to do this. Presumably people who feel that way also have no issue with "creepshots" as I posted of on this thread or "upskirt" photography which the women and girls aren't aware of, never mind the attitudes towards all women and girls this displays. There are also definitely instances of photographs being taken without the consent of girls within schools - some shared online are of girls in school (as well as those taken by men of girls in school uniform outside schools).

Abhorrent, invasive and degrading - as it's intended to be.

DJBaggySmalls

In the mists of my memory, I seem to recall a teacher on here saying that the stairs at her school were open plan and boys would stand underneath, watching girls, trying to cop a glimpse.

As far as I remember, there was a discussion about the legality of it, and it was concluded that it wasn't illegal.

I'm not sure anyone made the connection between that and upskirt photos, though. Which is just a more revolting, invasive version.

There were also some commentators who said if the girl doesn't know about it, what difference does it make?

Datun Tue 15-Aug-17 14:13:22
So does this mean it's not a crime if they do it to children either?

Datun hits the nail on the head again.

Icantreachthepretzels

Yes, I completely forgot about the epidemic of dick pics flying around the Internet.

There was a very disgruntled woman on Facebook who was sent an unsolicited dick pic. She spent the next several hours trawling the Internet for penis pics and returning the favour to her harasser/would be suitor. With various comments, mirroring what he had said and his attitude.

He did get a little upset, eventually. I think there were about 60 pictures. Told her to stop, and not to tell anyone.

Then it went viral.

And although I think men would be highly pissed off if someone attempted to photograph their genitals, I still think their reaction would not be the same as that of a woman.

I'd still like to know, though, if it's not illegal to photograph a woman upskirt, is it illegal to photograph a child?

The DM side-bar photos and the various Red Circle of Shame features in many magazines are part of the same school of "we will take photos of people without their consent and publish them with commentary on how we view these women's bodies"

I don't see how anyone can possibly believe that it's OK to take a photo up someone's skirt, though. You'd have to be a creepy fucker to think it's fine

just to be clear, the random man is snapping another man's genitals and sharing, it is this second man that understands the violation. The random man is not snapping his own and then sharing - they fucking love doing that!