Upskirting - not a crime

Men are quite happy peeing in front of other men. ....Many men indulge in a spot of light-hearted willy waving when they come out of the shower, women will often scuttle past with a towel around them.

The way a lot of women on MN imagine men is very entertaining. This particular gem is akin to the sterotype of what women get up to on sleepovers.

Men are just as insecure about their bodies as women, and just as varied in their feelings on these subjects.

And ex senior police woman is talking about. Essentially she is saying terrorism ia more important. And that girls need to look after themselves

Kate garroway has talked about it just being a prank and men dont deserve to be on the sex offenders register for a prank.

This has made me livid. Women and girls sold down the river by the police and mass media - once again.
This is a pattern.

Schools are rife with this kind of thing - male teachers as well as boys. At my nephew's school a teacher was prosecuted for putting a camera in the toilet bowl of the girls' toilets - can you imagine? Still, I suppose as long as they didn't know about it, no harm done...

In the mists of my memory, I seem to recall a teacher on here saying that the stairs at her school were open plan and boys would stand underneath, watching girls, trying to cop a glimpse.

My very misogynistic friend is positively proud of the fact that when he was at school they were lucky to catch a glimpse of knicker - in fact I think he repeats this line most times I see him.

Yeah - using men’s spaces is one thing, sexually harassing individuals to prove a point is just not cricket.

There’s a bill going to parliament - ask your MP to support it.

Hmm i wonder if there is a need to do a bit of 'manfriday' action would be in order here
Perhaps we could go into the men's toilets identifying as men of course and take some 'down trousers' pictures and see how that goes down as its not illegal is it
But I think we would encounter some real aggression so perhaps not

Women’s hour featured this last week - I understand there is a bill before parliament so the campaign is doing well

publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/2017-2019/0174/18174.pdf

I guess writing to our MPs and asking them to support the bill would be a good thing to do.

Here’s a link as well to a database Gina Martin is creating to document incidences of upskirting, to build evidence. Please share to gather testimonies bit.ly/2GzHgS9

Upskirt petition link

Upskirting is an offence in Scotland under the Sexual Offences (Scotland) Act 2009 which came into force in 2010. It is treated as voyeurism.

In the mists of my memory, I seem to recall a teacher on here saying that the stairs at her school were open plan and boys would stand underneath, watching girls, trying to cop a glimpse.

Early nineties this happened at the state fair where I live. Upskirt pictures.
As soon as the lawmakers found out that there was no law against it they wrote one and now upskirting is illegal.

This petition is still open - can,t add link but if you put Upskirt petition in Google it takes you to the petition. They are trying to get 100k signatures and they are about 3k off. Please sign to make this outrageous behaviour illegal.

There are reports in media of male teenage pupils who have taken upskirt photos/videos of female teachers - but technically no crime has been committed and it seems that the interests of the (underage) pupil must come first so in-house punishment is also avoided (to protect the perpetrator's anonymity at all costs) What message does this send to the victims and to the female pupils in the same classroom? I agree the law needs to catch up. It is so easy to take such photos without being detected.

Not on the same scale obvs but on Loose Women on Thursday some reality show bloke was on there with his girlfriend and he made a passing jokey remark on how he doesnt clean the bath cos hes a bloke. And everyone giggled.

This is the low level end of sexism .....how women are expected to do all the drudge work and clean up after men.

And the higher end of sexism is what this thread is about ...women and girls being there for the decoration and titillation of men........to the point that its the fault of women if someone takes an upskirt shot and women and young girls should look after themselves

ITV seems to be another channel that has a problem with women.

If they share it malicious communications?

Yes I think you're probably right Olenna.

I rather suspect that there are English laws that could be used to prosecute for this purpose if someone looked hard enough and creatively enough - we have the similar offence of outraging public decency on the statute books, for example

Kate garroway has talked about it just being a prank and men dont deserve to be on the sex offenders register for a prank.

Kate is an idiot who can FOTTFSOF.

Daniel Esposito, of Dorchester Close, pleaded guilty at North Somerset Courthouse to voyeurism and four acts of outraging public decency

I'm not English qualified nor a Scots criminal law practitioner but I do think some of the " no law broken" situations are simply wrong in law.

I'm not surprised it is a crime in Scotland. Scotland has a Common Law crime of "breach of the peace". This does not mean the obvious loud parties and drunken fighting but has historically covered all sorts of behaviour which wasn't a specific named crime but ought to be. I wasn't sure if English law had an equivalent but "outraging public decency" seems close.

In Scots Law an act can be a breach of the peace even if in private. The case we were given as an example was creepy, sexualised talk by a teacher to a boy in private where nothing physical happened.

A piece from the BBC with others speaking of their experiences of it: www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-40955829

It's incredibly common (and general "creepshots" of girls and women yet more frequent) and many of course remain unaware it's happened to them, such as the victims in this case which was only uncovered by chance after the perpetrator was arrested regarding another matter: www.northsomersettimes.co.uk/news/court/nailsea-man-admits-secret-filming-up-girls-skirts-in-shops-1-5024422

This is being talked about on gmb.

And ex senior police woman is talking about. Essentially she is saying terrorism ia more important. And that girls need to look after themseleves.

Kate garroway has talked about it just being a prank and men dont deserve to be on the sex offenders register for a prank.

Gina Martin has handled herself well.

It's far more about the boundary violation. Transparently.

Who gives a shit about a girl's knickers, when hard-core porn is simply another button on the same phone.

maybe it's time we started? Do you think they'd get in then? if they never knew when they were being photographed and entire websites were set up to sharing the pics and adding belittling comments.

I know we can't really sink to their level, but I already don't give a shit about the vast majority of them as individuals, that isn't working - I can't not give a shit about the stuff they do though.

Men, boys, males - they are really strange aren't they? And yet the amount of angst we feel over these strange creatures takes up a lot of time. Really odd. Time to not give a shit about them. Can't ever imagine a situation where a woman would take surreptitious crotch shots.

Oh, of course. It's just so degrading, that this goes on so often and there are so many sharing and viewing the images enrages me (not that it's any less awful when they're just taken for the perpetrator themselves to view). I'm sure the power the men and boys who take these images feel over women and girls is part of the motivation as well.

Thanks Nolove

"When arrested Phillips admitted to taking the pictures but when asked if they were for sexual purposes he said he 'supposed so' adding 'I am 80 so there is nothing much sexual going on if you know what I mean'."

Oh, that's alright then. As long as it's all about you and whether you can get it up.

Bellend.