Women in public/children in public

My point is that I am sure I have had plenty of tuts and sighs, as I mentioned in another thread I smoked heavily when pregnant but don't actually remember any public judging. There must have been some

If I had seen you, yes I would judged you hugely. You would not however have had the slightest indication I was doing so. I would have assumed that anyone who was smoking in public whilst heavily pregnant was probably likely to let rip at anyone they thought was judging them.

Re women and small children in public, I do sometimes wonder if mothers interpret a complete lack of interest in their children as some sort of judgement.

Noise levels would have to be appalling for me to care but on the other hand I'm really not interested in you or your child and I don't wish to engage with you or them.

This reminds me of a story that was doing the rounds a few months ago about a mother who had made up goodie bags with an apology note to give to fellow passengers on a flight. She had twins.
Utterly ridiculous for her to have to be expected to do this. Babies are babies and sometimes they cry. Everyone was a baby once!
(Sorry for the daily fail link)

www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2198255/Twins-flight-Parents-hand-sweets-ear-plugs-placate-fellow-passengers.html

Great thread, OP. I tend to engage with my DC when we're out. Not a running commentary by any means because I'd find that exhausting but I point out the odd thing to them if we are walking somewhere, and just generally chat with them. In a situation where we have to sit still for any period of time, I get out a book, or a toy. I do look around as I whisper a story to them, as I'm so conscious of being judged as being too loud, performative, smug etc and it makes me feel awkward that I'm doing something that others might pour scorn on. On the other hand, I won't take a tablet out in part because I would feel judged for ignoring my DC, not interacting and letting them watch too much TV! I wish someone would issue guidelines on what exactly constitutes acceptable mothering in public . Like pp's I can well imagine DH being lavished with praise for reading and talking to DC in public.

I wonder if some of it is the difference between the socialisation of men and women. I am notoriously bad at sensing judgey disapproval. I nearly launched an old man on the bus once who apparently made some comment about me being on benefits (despite not knowing me from Adam). I hadn't heard him but the friend I was with told me. That is the only example of this kind of experience that I can think of.

I wouldn't notice a sigh or tut or anything of those things when I am out, it's a running joke in my family about how "bubbled" I am when I am out and about.

My point is that I am sure I have had plenty of tuts and sighs, as I mentioned in another thread I smoked heavily when pregnant but don't actually remember any public judging. There must have been some.

I wonder if, like me, men do get some shit but aren't as tuned in?

Was just thinking and remembering a scene in one of the later Anne of Green Gables books where Diana says that the pictures in Eaton's catalogue are splendid to amuse small children with. Mrs Rachel Lynde promptly replies 'I amused 10 children without Eaton's catalogue.' La plus ca change. Tablets are the new Eaton's.

Great post OP, you've nailed it.

I have often thought that if men did the bulk of the childcaring, there wouldn't be all this moral panic over children and "screens."

Enjoyed this thread and will placemark so I can come back to it on those days when I need to remember "it's not me, it's them".

Summer I love a sympathetic 'old' lady.

But that's because you're the survivor of what I'm going through at that moment (the awful kid and the perceived judgement) and it's nice to have glimpse into a happier future!

There are a lot of very people (particularly elderly ladies) in the cafes we go to who are lovely to the kids and sympathetic to me as a parent.

This is interesting because "old women" also get a lot of grief on MN for being interested in children. My DD is a teenager now, and I'm glad I no longer have the issue about keeping her quiet and still (she was a lively toddler!) but I wonder whether I'm starting to tip into "interfering old lady" when I try to be sympathetic / supportive to parents (mothers) of young children.

Mine can, but only for 5 minutes Certainly not for the length of time it takes to order food, food to arrive, eat and pay the bill.

I live in the north of England and I will say that most people here are fairly accepting of children. There are a lot of very people (particularly elderly ladies) in the cafes we go to who are lovely to the kids and sympathetic to me as a parent. It's so nice when this happens, it can really make your day. It also means we go back!

I rarely post on mn these days as it feels like it is full of judgemental, self-righteous and frankly not very clever posters moaning about women who have the temerity to want to be out in public with their children. It's part of the whole hideous 'your child is just a lifestyle choice' bollocks, with a 'you are the only one who finds your child cute' added in for good measure. It must be pretty exhausting to have miserable irritation as one's default setting for relating with others in public spaces.

My kid definitely CANNOT just sit and eat!

We're talking about women and children in public generally, actually. Do keep up!

ButtHoleinOne, that's a totally different subject We're talking about mums and kids in cafe's

So a child can't just sit and eat? The mum can have a normal conversation with said child without disturbing others.

Yes to school run traffic. How dare women and children use the roads? I once wrote to Mary Anne Sieghart after she wrote a silly piece about school run traffic clogging up her journey and asked why she wasn't walking to work since it was so easy for parents - usually women - with kids and buggies in tow. Surprised at her being oblivious to the gender issue there.

I always find the hand wringing about the school run clogging up the roads a bit anti female. The important men doing men things aren't causing traffic, just the nuisance women dropping children off on the way to work. A bit of rain and a 2 mile walk is good for children who unlike and presumably their mothers benefit from doing 8 miles a day in the rain too.

I do spend a lot of my time trying to reign my boisterous 4yo in - sometimes because his behaviour is just awful by anyone's standards, but other times because I'm worried about how it reflects on me I suppose.

That's sad isn't it?

Fascinating post op...I had never thought about this before but it's so true!

I live in Spain and was on here in June panicking about bringing my bouncy enthusiastic chatty 5yo to the UK for a holiday as some of the posts i've read on here are so sad.

Would people tut and harrumph and suck their teeth loudly? Would people come up and say "can you do x? you can't do y. child not welcome...' etc etc.

And lo... DS is a chatty thing, waffled on all the way through our flight, posh couple of around late-60s age* sitting in front of us. Once we got to passport control they realised they were in the same queue as us and gave me and DS the stink eye, whispered to each other and fucked off to another queue. By all means move away from us but it was the filthy look i got off them that really got my back up.

Welcome to Britain.

• quite possibly has nothing to do with their age, but they came across as just like my same-aged mother "oh gawd children" .