Can we talk about this lip filler fashion

It's not judgmental or unreasonable to discuss the reasons for the popularity of a particular current trend in women's appearance. Maybe the reasons are nothing to do with sexism/misogyny/the male gaze, maybe they are very much linked to that. I think it's fine to discuss it without interpreting the discussion as a judgement on women who do this.

It's a very interesting one. We are in a position where we want to attract a mate. Making yourself more appealing to the opposite sex is all part of it.

It's not an answer that I can easily give, even to myself.

Is it the difference between admiration and objectification?

So if you are colluding with the objectification of women, that might include breast enhancement.

But having clean, well brushed, shiny hair doesn't?

Objectification means seeing women as walking sex objects. Not, walking attractive people.

Well hardy we must not want to look nice for each other?! That would clearly breach the codes for being in the feminist movement

I keep seeing "suggested posts" on fb about such things. Imo they look horrible and totally unnatural.

It's the choice that is being considered not feminist, not the woman herself. Women can clearly be feminists but sometimes make non-feminist choices.

Exactly. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. I shave my legs and wear make up. I'm a feminist, the choice isn't.

Eh? I'm a feminist and have been all my adult life. I am getting my lips done next month. Because I feel my lips are to small and would like them bigger. I am not doing this for any male approval and actually my husband does not want me to have it done, but I do. And it's my body my choice.

If a woman decides to enhance her body in an artificial way then how on earth does that impact upon their opportunity to be treated as an equal?

Of course not including this feminist board where posters are deciding that being free to decide what happens to your own body means you cannot possibly be a feminist!!!

And even if they do do it for men, is that wrong, categorically? Not disputing the examples you listed are terrible, but is it generally wrong to make yourself more appealing (to the other sex)?

@Dippingmytoesin, Datun said

"she is not making a feminist choice.

That doesn't mean she can't do it. It does mean she can't claim it's feminist."

It's the choice that is being considered not feminist, not the woman herself. Women can clearly be feminists but sometimes make non-feminist choices.

Dippingmytoesin

I'm not judging. I'm pointing out where these decisions start.

It's incredibly difficult when people don't have any background information. Because, as far as they're concerned, they are making a decision based purely on their preferences.

So disagreeing, and being a little defensive, is entirely understandable. I don't judge that.

PS My botox and fillers is done by a doctor (and isn't for the lips)

MissBabbs - probably shouldn't disclose it here, but I have botox and fillers and am happy with the results. Botox makes me look a bit fresher / less tired, and fillers mitigate against bitchy rest face and looking unhappy. I don't - at least consciously - do it for men but because I like the results. Am happy with the results - but wasn't unhappy before, if that makes any sense

What concerns me is women having these fillers done by unqualified and unscrupulous practitioners. I saw a young woman recently who had the most misshapen lips that looks totally distorted and as if they were close to bursting point. I can't imagine she'd had this done by a doctor.

Datun I think judging women by what they choose to do with their bodies when you're a woman yourself doesn't make you a feminist either.

If someone feels uncomfortable with their body they can do what they wish regardless.

I don't really think it's up to anyone to decide whether someone is a feminist or not.

Not everyone does stuff for men!

•I would say it's associated with youth and living in a society that prizes youth above all in women...*
Well youth and beauty above all.
It would be interesting to see a study done as to whether enhancements to beauty pay off for everyone, male and female- or are they still unhappy after work done or does being beautiful ( though I prefer a natural looking beauty to a painted one, even if achieved by artificial means) really improve your life.

Dippingmytoesin

Chinese foot binding was considered de rigueur for young girls and women. It made them walk in a very delicate way. Which was attractive to men. It also crippled them.

Whale bone corsets was considered very fashionable, slimming the waist and enhancing the hips. Also attractive to men. It also broke ribs and caused breathing difficulties.

Cutting off bits of a woman's genitals is considered correct by many mothers of these girls. It destroys their sexual function but more importantly, they cannot be coveted by a man they don't belong to.

I'm sure tens of thousands of these women were of the opinion that this was a choice they agreed with and wanted to do.

So yes, what women do
to their bodies is very much a feminist issue. Because these choices are not made in a vacuum.

A woman can increase her breast size a hundred percent, have lip fillers, and hair extensions, but make no mistake, she is not making a feminist choice.

That doesn't mean she can't do it. It does mean she can't claim it's feminist.

Pointing out that cosmetic surgery is often undertaken in order to be more pleasing to the male gaze for longer is being judgemental? Because that's what's happening here.

I think it stems from reality Tv the kardashians have very plumped up lips I have seen girls on my Dds facebook barely out of Secondary school with fillers in their lips and cheeks these girls don't look like themselves it is very odd I think they wantvto look like kylie Jenner or somebody off geordie shore Its very worrying imo that cosmetic therapists are opening up in sheds at the bottom of gardens there is 4 in my village alone plus a cosmetic beauty therapist salon I don't know the answer but as i said it is worrying that young women feel they need to plump their faces .

People are judgmental about any kind of cosmetic work - threads about boob jobs have been the same.

Yes it's why I wince at little girls in bright lipstick. Clueless mothers.

Women do it because they want to, some women like fuller lips some don't. I'm not understanding why what people do to their bodies effects others

MrGHardy

No, I don't think many women are aware of it. It's been common knowledge to me for years. But then everyone has to learn about it for the first time, I guess.

I don't think it's necessarily
some kind of subconscious decision on the part of the woman. It's just fashion.

Newtssuitcase

Yes, being treated equally and making choices that we like is definitely a part of feminism. Being able to make choices has been denied women for centuries.

But sometimes people make choices within a system. Analysing the reasons for that system, and therefore why those choices are made, is very definitely a feminist issue.

I don't think there is a feminist alive who would castigate you for shaving your legs or wearing lippy. But knowing why we do this things is both interesting and informs us of how choices don't always necessarily buck a system.

And apparently an increasing number of men are having it too...

It's not a new thing - I first had mine done about 10 years ago. It's just one of those things that has become quite accessible like Botox and quick to carry out.

Datun so are women aware of this, maybe subconsciously, any study results on that? My gf almost never uses lipstick, but her mother and her little sister do...