Can we talk about this lip filler fashion

As opposed to a shallow one? Do people ever get bored of underthinking?

The lipstick makes lips look like labia stuff seems to me a pretty tired bit of underthinking - especially if citing Desmond Morris. As does the automatic assumption that everything done to enhance appearance is for the benefit of men. Much of it seems to me to be with a view of getting one over other women.

quencher - interesting link, thanks

I was thinking, as I read the thread, that I suspect that at least in part the current fashion is driven by the rise of black superstars like Rhianna who have naturally full lips and a proper curvy bum. There's no way that the average causcasian woman can emulate her mouth without cosmetic assistance

Does it really require an in depth analysis

As opposed to a shallow one? Do people ever get bored of underthinking?

My 20yr old has full lips and people have been quite mean to her about them usually saying she has gone to far on the filler trout pout etc etc why are girls so nasty to other girls especially about looks It truly baffles me

I haven't read the whole thread but I naturally have very full lips. I have had comments from both men and woman in the past about them, a few innapropriate e.g blow job lips but mostly complementary. I certainly don't think they look like labia on my face! I love my lips, they are my favourite part of me and always have been even before the fashion for big lips.

Sorry, things have moved on - I came back and posted before hitting refresh!

I'm puzzled by the assumption that associating the origins and encroaching presence of this with porn equates to accusing people of wanting to be porn stars:
'I think there is more chance of this being possible than to look like porn stars.'
'I don't however want a job in the porn industry, nor the look of a fanny on my face, nor and I wanting to give out the impression that I'm sexual available (hmm)'
'Just because someone has filler lips does not mean they are in the porn industry '
I'm sure there were more comments in a similar vein. But no one's saying having lip fillers means someone wants to be a porn star; pp are just pointing out the origins of trends like these. The same thing applies to the removal of all pubic hair, or having a Brazilian or whatever. You might not like learning where the fashion came from but that doesn't mean it's not true. Nor does it mean you are being called a porn star or anything else when the facts are pointed out to you.

Not read the whole thread but I have some experience with this because I naturally have very full and pouty lips.
When I was a teen I used to follow the fashion and have the dark lip line with lighter lipstick and gloss inside the line (wft was I thinking?!) anyway, I had numerous men comment that 'blowjob lips' looked like pillows that were perfect for penetrating in between. A group of girls at school nicknamed me Lips and I got a completely unfounded and undeserved rep for being a 'blowjob queen'

I now hate my mouth and try and not draw attention to it at all.

And yet the fashionable body shape keeps changing. So the heroin chic of 10-15 years ago. Now the curvy bum look.

The 1960s was all about no boobs and being stick thin. Whereas the 50s had pointy boobs and an hourglass figure.

All buying into women's insecurities about their looks. Because they are judged on their fuckablity.

Capitalism changing the rules every decade so we can buy more stuff.

DIpping- i was the same as you.

However even though i didn't follow media or fashion, i was quite aware that the thin girls with boobs at school were the admired ones, and the fat kids were picked up on and ridiculed. I saw clearly which girls the boys flocked too. It's subliminal. I became anorexic at 17- social pressure was a factor.

It's like gender stereotyping. Doesn't matter if the parents insist boys wear pink, if the child has any contact with the outside world they will pick up that pink is "gay" or "girly"

Dippingmytoesin

Sorry for your experience. It can't be easy.

I'm not sure I would disagree with someone having a nose job if they are truly distressed about the size of their nose. If we, as a society weren't so looks orientated, it wouldn't matter. As we are, it does. It's just a question of degree.

In terms of anorexia, I confess I do not know enough about it. Apart from it being a mechanism of control for the person suffering.

I don't know whether the desire to look/be thin has got anything to do with our obsession for slenderness though?

Perhaps someone else can enlighten me on that.

Ah, thanks for that Beachcomber. (I posted before I read your comment.)

Datun but nothing said about women by Desmond Morris (Mr 'breasts are a bottom on your chest') is to be taken at face value (npi). He's like one of those mouthy blokes down the pub in that he talks a lot but I don't think he knows much. All his 'social theory' or whatever he calls it seems to be based on what he has 'observed' (selectively) in animals and then applies (dodgily) to humans: www.theguardian.com/books/2007/dec/18/scienceandnature.science

I think we arrived at the current lip zeitgeist via a melange of influences (Kardashians + porn + desire to look young/horror of aging) which are not unrelated. Throw in a good measure of fear of 'resting bitch face' too. That thing that happens to you when you age and your face falls and crinkles around your mouth and maybe you look 'angry' because you're not smiling at fellas all blinking day is apparently not considered all that fuckable.

I suspect most women in middle age who get lip filler just want to look 'fresh' and less gnarled around the mouth, but the reason this is a thing is because looking a bit gnarled clearly indicates that being 'fresh' is not a priority for you and we have a horror of women who 'let themselves go'. I say this as someone who is struggling with the concept of looking like I have let myself go unless I spend a lot of time doing my hair and choosing a 'put together look' because my default look (which in youth looked a bit interesting and artsy) now looks unkempt and self-neglecting. So what i mean is that I understand the interest in looking 'fresh' I just resent being charged with this responsibility.

I wonder if this is also a thing in France, where all that smoking and lip-pursing often show shamelessly on an older lady. They never seem to mind.

I think it can be people's feeling In genera not just media.

From my own experience which I'm in no way saying others feel the same. I was diagnosed with anorexia aged 8 after suffering with eating for 2 years, i wasn't a little girl who liked pop stars/films etc I was quite happy to sit in my room and do maths or read or draw. I've hated my nose since I can remember. I've never compared myself to those in the media just a constant feeling of being uncomfortable In the way I am.
I'll admit I'm still what medical professionals will say 'anorexic'. (Now 26)

Through my years of therapy I've been in groups of others with eating disorders a few women had had extensive plastic surgery, there's always a few men and women who have said it's not media that has triggered their disorders and wanting to change their looks it's how they feel about themselves.

I know your argument is about fillers and the media, but it can be the same as EDs etc where it's not liking yourself and not always due to the media.

I've not articulated myself well here I apologise I'm just exhausted and In pain!

I blame Kylie Jenner partly for popularizing it here. the lips look like a bloated asshole to me and they're aging (I'm charming, I know). I think it's part of the pushback from the super skinny waiflike white girl ideal in the 90s/early 2000s. That and the big exaggerated curves and the huge thick eyebrows seem to be distancing themselves from the Paris hiltons and Kate mosses w their stick thin brows/asses/lips/etc.
is it just styles cycling ? Idk. Is there a bit of cultural appropriation mixed in there? I think so too
It's interesting.

Thanks for that quencher. I hadn't realised it was an issue (I know, I know).

I shall read more about it, to get a proper handle on it.

In France they call it "une bouche à pipe" which is the equivalent of "blow job mouth".

I highly recommend Sheila Jeffries' brilliant book "Beauty and Misogyny" for anyone who is interested in why what women do to their bodies in the name of fashion or choicey choices is a feminist subject.

The book has a brilliant analysis of gender and how beauty practices are part of women being identified and clearly marked out as subjugated and of the sex class.

None of us make choices in a sociocultural vacuum. Unfortunately.

@Datun look at the picture below of viola Davis wearing red lipstick. The comments she got was horrendous.

The misogynior towards black women's body is astounding. But also, the linking of red lip stick with the "black face". Apart from that, it's not seen as good colour for dark skin women and it's one of those where you have to be light to wear one and brown paper bag would have to be brought in as test.

Interesting link about a British woman who grew up knowing that as black woman she could not wear red lipstick.
"It was only 2 years ago that I started giving myself permission to wear bold lipsticks. To have the audacity to stand out, to be seen and to actually love myself exactly the way I am. I did that in spite of what I and so many POC have been taught is beautiful. I do it to affirm to myself that I am a sovereign queen, and that nobody can make me feel ugly or unworthy without my consent."
www.wildmysticwoman.com/poetry-prose/red-lipstick

And the debacle with asap rocky on his comment about dark women who shouldn't wear red lip stick.

www.teenvogue.com/story/mac-black-model-lips-instagram-racist-comments

Lots of pictures of blacked people with red lips used in America (warning for the wiki page)
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

www.lipstickalley.com/threads/why-are-black-women-makeup-shamed-so-heavily.992197/

Dippingmytoesin

Where do you see the blame? I'm not disagreeing, just interested in your answer.

The media has some blame, but I don't think it's 100% to blame either.

The one is a direct result of the other.

Dippingmytoesin

You don't see a correlation between the media lead objectification of women and girls, and breast enhancement and lip fillers?

I didn't ask about the media I asked about cosmetic surgery and enhancements..

Does it really require an in depth analysis?

You'll be telling us we're 'over thinking' it next!

If you (generic) prefer to under think things, that's fine. Just leave everyone else to it, surely.

Today 14:41 Dippingmytoesin

So do you want action against fillers and other cosmetic enhancements?

I'd absolutely agree with action over the objectification of women and girls by the media. The 'is your body bikini ready?' type adverts. The relentless pressure girls and young women are under to achieve an impossible standard of beauty.

The huge upsurge in young women having their labia changed by a plastic surgeon to be more uniform/appealing/acceptable.