Feminism as "let's be nice to everyone"

I do say 'in the enemy camp' as some of the views I encounter are deeply, profoundly misogynistic yet the person expressing those views can be someone I have come to like. We can get a bit 'Stockholm' sometimes and need bringing round.

That explains a lot.

I recommend spending your weekends with feminism to balance things out.

'We can get a bit 'Stockholm' sometimes and need bringing round.'

There are of course a number of feminist issues around women doing these caring roles in society, which are relevant to this thread - the impact on your own wellbeing.

Perhaps one of the difficulties here is that you're very much in the position of a worker - a person who helps other people, gets sessions to discuss that with a manager or co-worker, and is applying feminism to that.

But that isn't the model for many women and feminism. I'm not a worker trying to apply feminism to some vulnerable group of women or girls. I feel pretty vulnerable myself, have gone through a load of crap, and understanding the experiences of women as a class helps me make sense of my own situation and how to function in the world.

If it helps you to articulate your perspective on feminism, by all means mention your work, but it's your job, not really personal information about you, and so asking other people what their background/personal info/ experiences they're bringing to feminism is, isn't something people frequently state.

BertrandRussell
"You are rewriting this, you referred only to young men and boys rather than young people until challenged*

Nope sorry.

You challenged this at 00:10

I wrote 'young people' in a post at 11:11

I do change the term as 80% of the time I do work with boys but I also work with girls. Technically most of the young people are children.

I do say 'in the enemy camp' as some of the views I encounter are deeply, profoundly misogynistic yet the person expressing those views can be someone I have come to like. We can get a bit 'Stockholm' sometimes and need bringing round.

At a conference I met a woman who worked with sex offenders in prison. Her work is infinitely more challenging than mine but we were able to share some experiences of 'being in the enemy camp'. Interesting topic.

And you several times mentioned being "in the enemy camp"- as if you were expecting people to say that young men and boys do not suffer or deserve help and support.

"What I say is that some of my young people suffer this and more.
I also qualify this comment by saying its not a competition and women's a class suffer more."

You are rewriting this, you referred only to young men and boys rather than young people until challenged.

JasmineGreen

'The design was also condemned by Sussex Police hate crime ambassador Sergeant Peter Allan, who wrote on the Facebook thread: "This should not be happening in 2017."'

What has this got to do with police? Is it illegal? Is it a hate crime? Against whom? Because I know for sure that if I get beaten or raped for being a woman, that isn't considered a hate crime.

Exactly.

Ereshkigal

Although now I'm not sure whether the 'toilets' refers to the trans-debate, or the toilet signs

I'm pretty sure she was referring to the trans debate as she has been dismissive of women's views about it on other threads

It was me who mentioned toilet signs - not Mousse. In the context of the lines of "who cares if the M&S stick figure on toilet sign is wearing a pink dress" No idea whether "she" in your comment is referring to me or Mousse but I don't recognise its applicability to me.

Perhaps bear in mind "she is the cat's mother" even posters on a forum have names.

Moussemoose I find what you've been saying and your complete dismissal and ignoring of the experiences of others abhorrent

Complete dismissal? "Women as a class suffer more".

Ignoring? I work with people from a range of cultures and social classes. I know people from a range of social classes I ignore no one.

Ereshkigal was talking about Gaby Hinscliff.

Moussemoose I find what you've been saying and your complete dismissal and ignoring of the experiences of others abhorrent.

JasmineGreen

The point of competition on this thread are the needs of women to talk about their experiences of sexism and the need for a female worker to talk about her experiences of doing a specific job

Indeed, my job takes me into the 'enemy camp' and offers a number of challenges to a feminist which I think might be of interest. I have to engage with groups of deeply troubled young people (mainly boys, some girls) who often hold some very challenging views, while being very vulnerable themselves.

My aim is to make them better citizens.

You went out of your way to rationalise your "emotional" comment.

Gaby Hinsliff. Not you in this case.

Ereshkigal

YY, Nolove. But she didn't appear to give a fuck about the women in those countries, because to criticise the culture would be a guardian no no

More than happy to criticise certain cultures. I do and have done on MN.

NoLoveofMine

Wow abhorrent. I give an honest example of an emotion I felt at the end of a difficult day. I am happy to admit the emotional comment was not good. In fact the point I was making was that sometimes, in desperation, that is how I feel. I may have phrased my comment poorly. I'm quite happy to admit all that.

But I would hope most posters wouldn't consider me an abhorrent misogynist?

YY, Nolove. But she didn't appear to give a fuck about the women in those countries, because to criticise the culture would be a guardian no no.

Very true Jasmine. Our experiences are being not only dismissed but also belittled. Very telling.

Ereshkigal that was indeed awful, not only dismissive of women suffering sexual assault but also insulting to women who suffer it daily in the cultures she was purporting to be defending.

My assumptions are based on life experiences working with a range of people from different social groups.

There is no objective hierarchy of rape.

My assumptions are based on life experiences working with a range of people from different social groups.

Yet you dismiss life experiences of others. Abhorrent.

It's like that awful Gaby Hinsliff guardian article where Gaby felt the need to post about the sexual assault victims' smartphones and relative freedom and opine about how it must feel from the perspective of foreign men from cultures where women don't have our rights, what lucky things we are, even when sexually assaulted!

The point of competition on this thread are the needs of women to talk about their experiences of sexism and the need for a female worker to talk about her experiences of doing a specific job.

The actual abused young people aren't participating in this competition.

I can't go into details to prove my point so I won't. My assumptions are based on life experiences working with a range of people from different social groups.

Agreed Ereshkigal.

What I say is that some of my young people suffer this and more.

That's your assumption. You have no way of putting rape into a hierarchy on an individual level. Stop doing it.

Yet you say "your young people" suffer "this and more", thereby trying to make their suffering greater. It's you making this a competition. Oh, and as I said, some middle class women and girls are murdered for no other reason than being female. Being middle class doesn't stop that, nor does it stop their family and friends from being impacted forever.

LassWiTheDelicateAir
Had she said something like "middle class women are making an issue over M&S painting a stick figure on a toilet door pink ffs" then fine (and I'd agree with that)

Thankyou for clarifying my point - that is what I meant. I tend to avoid any trans issues as I have history of not expressing myself well.