Women only swimming stopped

My local pool run a session for muslim ladies, fine by me if that's what they want to do.

What's not fine is that when I went swimming with my children and husband last week we returned to the communal changing areas to find that 75% off it had been locked with signs stating 'ladies only changing in place'

I had to get the lifeguard to let me in a secret entrance whilst my husband and 2 small children waited outside wet and cold so that I could retrieve all of our belongings from the locker which was now locked within this area.

When I stepped foot through the door I was immediately attacked by the group telling me it was a 'private session' and to leave now.

Didn't realise being white I don't class as a 'lady' in the ladies changing area!

Overly privileged comes to mind

If the only time the man can go swimming is during the women-only sessions, then he is being stopped

1 hour? He has one hour only ? Hardly realistic.

Even if that were true it could be accommodated by having the single sex sessions over a 2 or 3 week cycle at different times- which might in any case suit the female users better

noeffingidea

lass well they're certainly clear to me

There are sound, rational and objective reasons for single sex facilities, even single sex male swimming sessions. Pandering to religious beliefs isn't one of them.

This from the swimming pool rep:

“We should add that we are in discussions with Sport England to see if their exemption guidelines would allow us to reinstate the sessions, however it looks very unlikely that we will qualify for this as exceptions only apply when groups are underrepresented, and at The Pulse, the majority of our swimmers, who come throughout the week, are female.”

Unfortunately the law is missing the point here in that the group who want women only sessions might be women, but they are subset of those women, purely because of their need for single sex sessions.

It is interesting that these complaints are only ever one way round. I don't look at the men's shed movement and think "but, but, but I like pottering in sheds making stuff... I demand to be included." I look at it and think "wow, bloody brilliant, a grass-roots male movement to address loneliness and its part in the higher incidence of male depression and suicide - and it's working. Fabulous! More power to their elbow."

Because sane, rational people (of both sexes) can see a difference between small, non-threatening niches of single sex activities to address a particular need and genuine sexism of the "lets make high-tech programming workplaces really unwelcoming to women" sort.

Yay PricklyBall! That's such great news.

I sincerely hope the consultation with their customers is pretty neutral. And they don't try to pressure them in any way.

3000 signatures!

Yay! Success!

Here's the response I got to the petition, an update on the situation:

11 AUG 2017 — Massive thank you to all 3,000+ of you who have signed the petition so far.

This morning Gloucestershire Live have released an article in which it states that a "spokesman from Stroud District Council said:

“There has been a strong response to our decision to end the ladies only swimming sessions after we received a complaint alleging that we were breaching equalities legislation.

"With the benefit of hindsight we should have taken legal advice and more time to consider our response rather than acting so quickly.""

Full article here

He literally has one hour in the week which is the only time he can go swimming? Yeah, right.

But in any case - even if we did accept that...
(1) What if that hour fell during times the pool was closed to the public for school swimming lessons? Booked by the local water-polo club? They wouldn't be under any obligation to change their rules for one individual whose busy life happened to conflict with the timetable of the school lessons or water polo club. Why is a women-only swim different.

And (2) One individual's busy life doesn't constitute sex discrimination. Not if there are plenty of times men in general can go swimming. And (as pointed out right at the beginning of the thread) the sex discrimination legislation allows for single-sex activities to be set up to serve particular purposes.

Anyway, I've signed the petition. Good luck to the women in getting their session reinstated.

I imagine there are plenty of prisons around the world that develop power dynamics like this tbh

A problem men can now solve by identifying their way into the women's prison.
Only not really, because the bigger, stronger men can do that, too.

But the fact men do this, and some women applaud it, shows quite clearly how little empathy people in general have for women. The poor menz must be protected from prison rape at all costs. If they then rape women, eh, no one cares.

If the only time the man can go swimming is during the women-only sessions, then he is being stopped.

And one man whose schedule is so weird that he can only go swimming ONCE a week, which just so happens to be during the women's swimming hour, is clearly more important than fifty women.

What would he do if the pool was closed for maintenance at that time? Tough luck? Would he still have to be prioritized over everyone else?

How many women have to be there to be more important than one man?

In Islamic law, three female witnesses can outweigh one male witness at court. Seems the exchange rate has been changed.

So, in your opinion, how many women are as much worth as one man? Hundred? Thousand?

I must say, Islam is less misogynist than you. Quite a feat.

No one is stopping the man from going swimming!
If the only time the man can go swimming is during the women-only sessions, then he is being stopped.

Man wants to go swimming trumps muslim women not wanting men to go swimming.

No one is stopping the man from going swimming!

Angel I don't think there's any reason why religious groups (or any group) can't book sessions for the whole pool anyway. My pool is booked by a swimming club most evenings and is closed to the general public. I expect that would be pretty expensive though.

undercover well, lets just think of the Muslim and orthodox Jewish ladies, shall we?
Other forms of discrimination trump religious discrimination. Man wants to go swimming trumps muslim women not wanting men to go swimming.

"This is what infuriates me more than anything. Of course they don't see it, it doesn't happen to them."

As you mention later, it's a lack of empathy. Wholly unable and even unwilling to put themselves into the shoes of the woman.

Incidentally, this is why there is so little theft in Japan, schoolchildren are taught what it feels like when someone is stolen from. They are taught empathy. If only they would do the same for men regarding women...

lass well they're certainly clear to me.

I imagine there are plenty of prisons around the world that develop power dynamics like this tbh

True, of course. And I'm sure many men look at that and think God how awful. And then walk away and completely forgot about it.

I would love to see a study where men were put in a similar environment. With bigger, faster, stronger, predatory beings doing the same to them for a week. Where a look never just a look. Where it is always underpinned by the knowledge of a power dynamic where they are permanently disadvantaged.

I imagine there are plenty of prisons around the world that develop power dynamics like this tbh

DP and I were discussing the issues of gender identity and women's spaces with a male friend, he was totally unable to comprehend why women wanted these spaces kept as sex segregated, even after we gave many many examples of why. He brushed off the conversation saying it really didn't matter

This is what infuriates me more than anything. Of course they don't see it, it doesn't happen to them.

There is a cruelly exquisite irony in men being the reason women want segregation, and at the same time asserting women don't need it.

Men who have zero empathy and wanting access to women, are the very men who provide the reason for segregation in the first place.

Women's boundaries are violated on a daily basis. From minor manspreading, conversational dominance, to major harassment and assault.

I would love to see a study where men were put in a similar environment. With bigger, faster, stronger, predatory beings doing the same to them for a week. Where a look never just a look. Where it is always underpinned by the knowledge of a power dynamic where they are permanently disadvantaged.

DP and I were discussing the issues of gender identity and women's spaces with a male friend, he was totally unable to comprehend why women wanted these spaces kept as sex segregated, even after we gave many many examples of why. He brushed off the conversation saying it really didn't matter

Well, good to know that he isn't really a friend of yours. The whole trans nonsense is useful insofar as it provides a crisis situation in which you can see who your real friends are.

Twelly, I agree that religious reasons shouldn't be given priority - a woman's comfort and happiness is just as important as her (patriarchal) religion!
But I don't see how that could lead to "minority sessions". Most religious women will be quite happy to go to women only swimming with women of other religions.

And I think allocating one hour to trans swimming would be a small price to pay for keeping women only sessions - only that male trans would never accept that and whine and complain. It is not like those who aim to invade women's spaces want to be away from other males, they just want to invade.

I have signed the petition as has DP. It is shocking how many people think that sex segregated spaces and sessions are unnecessary, great for you if you have never experienced sexual harassment or rape, I have, as have many of my friends. Why should one person complaining overturn the rights of vulnerable women?

DP and I were discussing the issues of gender identity and women's spaces with a male friend, he was totally unable to comprehend why women wanted these spaces kept as sex segregated, even after we gave many many examples of why. He brushed off the conversation saying it really didn't matter

Religious reasons regarding swimming should in my view have no priority over non religious reasons. This could cause suggestions of specific religious group swimming sessions, transgender only sessions etc etc, which would logically mean that the minoritiy sessions reduced the majority time per person, no great for pools trying to be profitable.

I wonder if the women commenting on the Facebook, that they should let him in, are aware that he will now be demanding the right to use the female changing rooms? And the spineless fuckers that have taken away, yet another, female only space will use their comments as a green light to let him.

I feel so sorry for the Muslim and Jewish women that will have to give up, because of this ruling. Women being thrown under the bus for a man and rather than fighting this rule, these women, are throwing Muslim and Jewish women under the bus.

I just used the example of religious women because the reasons are clearcut and easy to understand

No they are not.

Non religious women have reasons that are just as valid, though more individual

There are valid non religious reasons for single sex sessions for women and men.

Are we moving to an era where women (XX ones) will have to organise into peer & friendship/kin collectives to book public and private sector pools for a hour's private swim to be ensured privacy and single-sex sessions?