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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can I have an opinion please?

36 replies

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 19:53

I would be particularly interested in a legal opinion as I am not particularly knowledgeable in that department.

I don't want to go into too much detail as to my involvement in the situation, but I will just say it was in a professional capacity. (I know neither of the people involved outside of this particular event)

During a night out a young woman was out with her friend in a club enjoying herself, yes she had been drinking. Whilst she was in the club she bumped into her ex-boyfriend. He wanted to talk to her, she did not want to talk. She ended up leaving the club alone to get away from him.

He followed her from the club shouting at her, intent on getting her attention. He aggressively pursued her along the street, she was half running and he kept grabbing her shoulder to try and turn her around. I witnessed this, she made it very clear she wanted to be left alone. After 4/5 times of being grabbed she slapped him. He then punched her in the face and she fell to the floor.

I attended to her and gave first aid for a swollen and bruised cheek.

A police officer also witnessed this and allowed the man to go as she had slapped him first and the two assaults cancelled each other out.

Is this right? It didn't sit well with me at the time, I argued with the officer but got told in no uncertain terms to shut up and do my job (medical).

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Gwenhwyfar · 08/08/2017 23:46

It used to be the case that the police would harass people who put in complaints against them. Is that no longer the case?

phoolani · 08/08/2017 23:45

He'd already committed assault and battery, she slapped him in self-defence. He then punched her, committing further battery. It's all fucking misogyny to think these things are equal.

Datun · 08/08/2017 23:40

There was a study in the US that showed men who use strangling as a form of violence are 8 times more likely to perpetrate further violence.

So much so that certain states have a specific category for violence involving strangulation.

Slimthistime · 08/08/2017 22:01

I'm concerned that she wanted to press charges and the officer said no, not sure how that works but it sounds really worrying.

VestalVirgin · 08/08/2017 21:39

I don't know the law, and it might be very misogynist, but ethically, the violent man was in the wrong and of course, a slap in self-defense is not anywhere near the same as punching someone in an attack!

That police officer was an asshole. IF the law is misogynist and enables violent men, then a decent police officer would explain that and be kind about the whole thing. Which is not what happened.

UtterlyFcked · 08/08/2017 21:36

In reality if the victim doesn't want a prosecution there won't be one in 9/10 instances. Lost count of how many times victims have changed their mind only to be later assaulted again. One extreme case which wasn't mine but one of a friend, the lady was a long term victim who refused to give statements against an abusive partner. The CPS erred and decided not to prosecute despite other evidence, he later killed her. On the flip side the family court give out non-mols like sweets often based on absolutely no evidence.

FrancesHaHa · 08/08/2017 21:10

There isn't such a thing as a DV victim 'pressing charges'.

Anyone can report a crime, so technically you could report this. The police then should abide by the positive action / positive arrest policy ie should arrest a perpetrator whether the victim wants it or not - this is to try to deal with the fact that many victims are too scared to say they want a case to go ahead. In this instance the officer could have taken them both to the station and taken statements from both, even if he genuinely believed she instigated the assaults (obviously she didn't).

Obviously it sounds like there are so many crimes here police could take loads of action against this.

Also, given what she's told you someone (DV agency, your agency?) should look at reporting this to the local MARAC given that he's strangled her in the past and now stalking her - she's at really high risk.

PencilsInSpace · 08/08/2017 21:08

You can make a complaint if you have: [among other things]

witnessed in person an incident where a police officer, member of police staff, contractor working for the police or a police volunteer acted inappropriately

IPPC

PencilsInSpace · 08/08/2017 21:01

You should absolutely dob in any police officers if they have been negligent, as long as you can personally afford to do so. Otherwise, see if there are any other witnesses who can dob them in
without major comeback.

The police are supposed to ensure our safety. Being kind to them because in retrospect they might 'also feel that a mistake was made that evening' doesn't cut it. Unless people raise complaints nothing will change.

Police these days are extensively trained on DV, coercive control, dangers of ex-partners etc. If they are making 'mistakes' it's either willful or they are too stupid to be in the police. Or they don't have the necessary resources to deal with the problem (priorities?).

Whichever of these is the cause of this particular incident, it needs reporting if you can, but I recognise not everybody can.

UtterlyFcked · 08/08/2017 20:52

Time isn't necessarily a barrier, many venues keep CCTV for months or even years. Ultimately you can't complain about the officer as it was down to her to push him to take action. I recently stopped a police van with two officers in it because they had driven past an unconscious girl at the side of the road three times. It was about 1am and they did not give a shit because she was intoxicated. I literally had to threaten them out of the van to take some responsible action for a very young and obviously vulnerable girl laying in the road.

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:50

Thank you all so much for your insight. It's been really helpful to me.

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Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:50

She certainly had a very good friend with her who helped her and understood her situation.

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Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:49

Hopefully she contacted the DA agency I put her in touch with and they are advising her on how to keep safe from him. She already took the brave step of ending the relationship, maybe she feels that to keep safe it's best not to report him.

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PacificDogwod · 08/08/2017 20:43

I think you did quite well on the night.

Whether you want to take it further (complaining about the officer) is of course up to you.

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:43

It was several weeks ago now, to be honest I was expecting her to report it the following day (she had a clear injury to show them) and for the police to contact me and a colleague for our witness statements. As time goes by I realise that it isn't going to happen.

I am terrified that one day I will pick up the paper and see she has been killed by him. I have no way now of accessing her records, and I never got her exes name at all. If only the officer had taken time to talk to her rather than dismissing her.
It was a busy night and he was only on scene because he was dealing with another situation on the road. I got the impression he needed to get back to what he was initially dealing with.

The woman didn't require further treatment, and wanted to go home with her friend. I had no power to keep her with me. The whole thing was a massive fuck up.

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UtterlyFcked · 08/08/2017 20:38

You can report a crime if you have witnessed it, you needn't necessarily mention that a police officer also saw. You could mention the location and time and with luck someone might check the CCTV if available without the on duty officer that was there becoming informed. But that being said, perhaps the officer also feels that a mistake was made that evening.

PencilsInSpace · 08/08/2017 20:35

He chased her down the street and kept grabbing her. He knocked her down with his fist. He has previously abused her within a relationship, including grabbing her throat. He needs stopping before he kills a woman.

No, this wasn't dealt with properly.

IPCC for police complaints if you have the energy and can afford to risk any comeback.

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:34

It feels like a huge missed opportunity to have helped someone. I feel guilty that at the time I couldn't do more.

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UtterlyFcked · 08/08/2017 20:32

Ps, look up the section 39 offence of common assault and battery if you would like more information on the criminal aspect of what has happened, you will need to look at the CPS charging standards rather than the legislation to get a sense. Police at the scene will rarely arrest low level domestics while the perps are intoxicated. The officer at the scene however does not have the sole discretion to decide whether an offence has been committed or not, she is still entitled to make a complaint, however if that officer gives a statement to the effect that they are both at fault a prosecution will be difficult and possibly not in the public interest.

Mrsemcgregor · 08/08/2017 20:32

Unfortunately only the victim can press charges, I can't do it for her.

I no longer have contact with her but did provide her with my details as a witness to the offence. I have not since been contacted by the police so can only assume that she didn't go back to them (and I can't blame her after her experience, he was so dismissive of her and threatened to arrest her if he had to arrest him).

I feel that all I can do now is raise a complaint against the officer, but as I am assuming there is no record of an offence taking place the whole incident won't be on record at all. Other than medical records?

I will talk to the union, thank you for that advice.

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pongoismyhero · 08/08/2017 20:26

No, that's disgraceful. She was acting in self defence.

MeanAger · 08/08/2017 20:26

And no, dig for dig does not cancel out the assaults. If the officer truly believed both were as bad as each other then they both should have been arrested.

MeanAger · 08/08/2017 20:25

She wanted to press charges but the officer at the scene would not allow it.

She can (and should) still press charges and she can (and should) place a complaint about the police officer.

LittleMissMankyPants · 08/08/2017 20:23

You should report the incident to the Police. Is there a usual procedure for this sort of thing? It's not for you to decide if he did his job probably. But his superiors can't either unless they know what happened.

PacificDogwod · 08/08/2017 20:21

x-posted with you.

Yes, I share your concerns - I'm also medical and I suppose we see too much DV escalating Sad

Take some advice from your defence union?? Not that you need 'defence', but they might be able to offer a legal perspective?

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