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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Men are in general bigger

39 replies

Badconversationalist · 06/08/2017 08:38

I was pondering an incident a long long time ago. A friend tried kissing me, I backed off/tried to push him away until I was pinned against the wall before getting myself free, leaving. He was apologetic later.

I saw him yesterday (we're still friends) and I thought about the sheer physicality of the situation. He is a strong muscular big bloke. So for me "push him off", actually in reality he must have stopped and let me go.

And actually the pinning against wall scenario could be passion rather than aggression to another.

I have thought a lot recently about social conditioning in terms of women being vulnerable. But I'm wondering how much the difference in physicality determines the dynamic between men and women?

Is that stupidly simplistic? Or stupidly obvious?

I'm not a small woman but I seem to know a lot of 6 foot plus men.

OP posts:
DJBaggySmalls · 06/08/2017 11:34

The average male is larger and stronger than the average female. If you look at sports and boxing you can see that the fittest, strongest women are still not as strong as the average man.
The woman who fought Fallon Fox and was severely injured knows she is 'abnormally strong' for a woman. I dont know how they let Fox in the ring with her.
Archived link;
archive.is/uDWH0

I agree that your friend chose to let you go. That was probably because of your continued active resistance. If you had been too scared or shocked to actively resist, he may have read that as willingness or compliance.
Your counsellor may be able to offer a joint session where he attends with you. You could think about what you want to say to him and what you want from him.

Badconversationalist · 06/08/2017 09:45

I think I'm only reflecting on it because of therapy in part for a more serious scenario but in a situation where it's easy to "other" the man as violent and not typical. But it sort of throws a light on the smaller things. And made me think about the everyday dynamic. I am hopeful this friendship survives that process.

In some ways it's a process of rationalising everyday threat and so the small things almost become more important.

The comments about strength and sex are really interesting thanks. And exactly the sort of thing I was wondering.

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TheVanguardSix · 06/08/2017 09:24

He used his physicality to dominate you in a situation you did not consent to. If you're reflecting on this still, it must obviously have left a mark and you have to wonder if the friendship you have now is a true and worthy one.

People can and do use their physicality to dominate others, to attract others, or to deter a threat. So it's not always a negative thing but of course, in your situation it was and you obviously felt threatened. This situation you experienced was with THIS particular friend of yours, so it would make life pretty grim if you worried about being at risk in the company of all men.

crazymissdaisy · 06/08/2017 09:17

I think yes we are conditioned ( or certainly were in the past) to consider ourselves vulnerable in partly because on the whole some men tend to be larger than some women and have more muscle mass for those bursts of running/ fighting. I am hoping to be corrected scientifically here! However: if society values endurance e.g. surviving in icy waters, long distances etc then my understanding was that it's actually women who have a physical advantage due to our fat stores. We must also be physically less vulnerable in some way because more female babies survive infancy, old ladies live longer. So maybe it's our interpretation of what is meant by strength that needs considering? There is also the fact that women genuinely are vulnerable when pregnant and breastfeeding or looking after small children. We do value support then, but it doesn't have to be from a man! Women also have the disadvantages of social conditioning to feel weaker and vulnerable because we weren't trained or educated or employed equally, we were infantilised or put on a pedestal or in a gilded cage in clothes that hobbled and constricted us - not just hooped skirts and silk bustles, even now I would struggle to change a wheel in my work clothes of pencil skirt and heels and painted fingernails. So i do see your point OP but think there is more to it as well.

Badconversationalist · 06/08/2017 09:16

I thought I was posting sensibly but I have mixed things up so maybe I haven't worked out what I think about the personal scenario and was indirectly asking.

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MsPassepartout · 06/08/2017 09:16

do we women in general (or have I) unwittingly lived with the risk of being overpowered at any point

Of course we do!
Men, as a class, are larger and stronger than women, as a class. A typical man can overpower a typical woman simply because he's larger and stronger. That makes women more vulnerable to male aggression, because it's harder for us to fight an aggressor off.
Most men don't go around routinely attacking women, but when men do, the woman usually comes off worse.

CeeBeeBee · 06/08/2017 09:15

"Not on"

CeeBeeBee · 06/08/2017 09:14

Not in what he did to you at all and I think you're making excuses for him by saying it was passion rather than aggression. I would not trust him anymore.

Badconversationalist · 06/08/2017 09:05

Yes I'm really regretting posting in such a rambling way. Wishing i had censored my thoughts a bit. Because if it had happened now I would agree but it happened when I was young clueless and with terrible boundaries.

The result is that years on we are friends. And maybe I'm finding it interesting because I'm trying to make that ok, I have some self awareness. But it really did make me think, do we women in general (or have I) unwittingly lived with the risk of being overpowered at any point.

OP posts:
MsPassepartout · 06/08/2017 09:02

I'd be willing to bet that most women who say things like found it sexy to be pinned against a wall are thinking of it in the context of the other party being a trusted partner who would stop pinning them against the wall if they showed discomfort with the situation.
Not in the context of being pinned to a wall against their will and being unable to free themselves.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 06/08/2017 09:01

Having talked to friends (ages ago) it turns out lots of them found it sexy to be pinned against a wall

Oh OK - been there and done that with consent in my youth ... but the key is consent. I consented and it was all part of the fun. You didn't.

I guess now I am wondering re what you mean by 'the dynamic'?

CosmicPineapple · 06/08/2017 08:57

He used his size and strength in an attempt to FORCE you in to a kiss. There is nothing passionate about that.
You backed off and pushed him away and then had to free yourself. What would have happened if you could not free yourself?

The man would no longer be my friend.

Badconversationalist · 06/08/2017 08:46

Having talked to friends (ages ago) it turns out lots of them found it sexy to be pinned against a wall.

Realise that I've written my rambling thoughts in the post and that's off topic and makes no point. Sorry.

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YetAnotherSpartacus · 06/08/2017 08:42

And actually the pinning against wall scenario could be passion rather than aggression to another

I've read your post a couple of times and I'm not sure what you mean here?