Men are in general bigger

That was one of the things that I read when reading about film kisses fairplay, it's nicely written and interesting to see things from a man's point of view.

I think the probably a lot of men have felt the same fear of someone bigger that women always have in the back of their mind. But they probably don't acknowledge it to themselves or think to apply their experience to how women feel. I mean, there's always a bigger man, someone who it would be wise not to get them angry. The difference is men would come across someone like that occasionally whereas for women most men are bigger and stronger than them. That situation also crops up in the media a lot, especially in comedy. Average man goes round to house/flat to complain about something, huge man with muscles and a scowl opens the door, average man immediately backs down and minimises complaint down from angry tirade to polite request.

That's interesting Genghi.

I wonder if many men prefer and promote the notion of a 'feminine' woman, precisely because it underpins how much the power differential works in their favour.

Genghi - yes, I agree with those points. I have a friend who almost always dates big, muscled men in manual occupations, and there is generally quite a significant mismatch in their levels of education compared to her. I have never quite understood why because those relationships have often ended very badly (one with domestic violence). I think she is attracted to a stereotype of masculinity but can't quite deal with the reality because she also has some very feminist views.

Of course, many tall, muscled men in physical jobs make fantastic boyfriends (!) and she may have just been unlucky. However, I think that she has almost been conditioned to want to be the smaller, "feminine" partner sexually and also to some extent is attracted to the "masculine" nature of their work, and that blinds her to some of the other mismatches between them.

Personally I am more likely to have a height cut off that works against taller men. My friends generally don't understand it, but I think I just feel more comfortable with somebody who doesn't feel so obviously much stronger and more powerful than I am. Which, in a way, is also a preference shaped by my experience of society.

Society expects women to be much smaller than men. It's why big women get maligned so much - because many can't be manhandled in the way you described and so aren't considered feminine. It's such a double-standard. I personally have never fancied tall bulky men and I'm a big girl- I don't want and have never wanted to be the little girl in a relationship.

Self defence will only take you so far.

It's great when it's obvious from the outset that you need to defend yourself. Unfortunately, it many situations (like the OP in fact) you don't realise the 'friend' is planning to overpower you until they have.

And yes there are techniques to get out of such a hold but they don't always work if you are physically weaker. They just don't.

I agree that it is a frightening realisation and many women will always remember the first time they truly understood how much more physical power most men have. I don't think I have a single male friend who wouldn't be physically capable of pinning me against a wall against my will.

The UK is a society where, generally, physical power is less important than other factors for social status. Where educational and career achievement are valued, and technology can redress most of the imbalance, women can often forget the physical difference between men and women. However, in many other societies physical strength remains very important and of course every woman has probably found herself in a situation where strength matters.

I agree that self defence classes will give a woman more of an advantage than a woman who hasn't taken them. But it will rely upon the opportunity to implement your skills. Which women often don't get to have.

However, I've always thought it would be useful to teach self defence to girls. On the other hand, as soon as men wise up and do it themselves you're back to a level playing field.

Or unlevel playing field. Again.

If you know how to defend yourself i.e. (Defense classes or karate etc), you don't always need to be stronger to win.

There was a great poster on my FB wall which said "Teach your daughter to become a warrior not a princess).

I think I understand your feelings OP. It was also a long time ago when I first realised that men were just generally stronger than women and we are mostly reliant on them being decent people and not forcing us into situations. For me it was a stupid game, I can't remember how it started, but it turned into one man holding my hands while the other wrapped duct tape around me, pinning my arms to my sides. I was laughing at first, when he first grabbed my hands I thought I would be able to stop him (they were both skinny nerds in a post doc chemistry lab fgs), but I struggled and couldn't break free. I freaked out and they stopped. I was able to remove the jumper I was wearing which now had tape all over it, and I stormed out. They were friends of friends and I never really saw them in the same way again. And I learned that even though I am generally quite strong 'for a woman' the average man would be able to overpower me, no problem. It's a scary realisation, and absolutely the basis of the patriarchy as a pp said (that, and reproductive biology). I'm just glad I learnt it in a fairly benign situation, rather than something more traumatic.

Oh, I've just remembered another post that probably goes some way to answering the other part of your question! It's a cracking read, as well.

Your reply reminded me, BlackAmericanoNoSugar.
fairplayforwomen.com/7-reasons-guys-dont-understand-consent

We have a blog post explaining exactly how much bigger & stronger men are. That difference can easily be abused, and often is, but for some reason people wander around thinking we're all pretty much the same really.

This should answer your direct question, at least: fairplayforwomen.com/biological-sex-differences

Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them

Margaret Atwood. Wise lady.

How long ago was this? I think (hope) things have changed a lot now, but when I was young that sort of backing a woman up against something and taking a kiss was presented as romantic in films.

There has been quite a bit written about Han Solo and Princess Leia's first kiss in terms of how it was representative of the general tone of films at the time. In the film it was more or less the same set up as your experience, except that he did kiss her and after a few seconds she relaxed into it and kissed him back. Women were supposed to put up a token resistance (I think so as not to seem tarty), and men would have been considered weak if they asked permission to kiss.

In movies the 'bad' men are the ones who keep up the kissing (or assault, to name it properly) for long enough that it's clearly not token resistance. So I think your friend was pretty much following what he learned from the media, he tried to kiss you and then let you go when it became clear that it was real and not pretend resistance.

And, yes, most men could overpower most women, but don't because they are socially responsible people. Most men probably never even think about the strength difference, but I think women remain aware of it, not all the time necessarily, but in some situations.

I have a younger brother. I can recall quite vividly the first time he beat me in a play fight - despite being a bit smaller than me, he was much stronger than me. We must have been about 10yo and 8yo respectively. I have never underestimated how much stronger, in general, men are than women.

I assume this happened when you were both quite young, so I would give the man the benefit of the doubt re the kissing

I wouldn't. If a boy my age did this to a girl I'd be enraged, as I would be if my 15 year old brother did. He has a girlfriend and understands consent; there's no excuse for any boy or man not to.

There is certainly an issue with messages, not least from pornography, suggesting women and girls all like being overpowered and so forth which is very worrying.

TheQuestioningVole I also agree with your post.

That is not to say there aren't some women who are stronger than many men. But this doesn't usually happen by accident. They need to work seriously in the gym to achieve this. Whereas most men are stronger than most women without taking such measures.

I assume this happened when you were both quite young, so I would give the man the benefit of the doubt re the kissing - if he has been socialised to think that's what girls like he may have made a mistake due to inexperience and once he realised you were trying to escape, he realised his error and released you. So yes he probably did let you go, rather than you forcing him. Sadly you are correct in thinking that if he hadn't have wanted to release you it would be very difficult for you to force it unless you are very strong and he is a small man.

Most men have upper body strength of at least 50 percent more than a woman of similar stature. This is biological due to testosterone that builds muscle. This biological advantage lasts from from mid teens right through to old age.

The entire basis of patriarchal society is that men are stronger than women. There is no other reason why men dominate everything - the key is that when it comes to it, men can and will use force against women to make them comply. Everyone knows this but no one likes to admit it.

Nothing wrong with "passion", and sometimes it's fun to drive fast, but you don't start a car in 5th gear. Pinning a woman to a wall and trying to kiss her as an opening gambit is probably going to be a wanted advance in 1/100 or maybe 1/1000 situations. So it's long odds indeed.

His being bigger and stronger than you made what happened his choice, not yours.
You were 'lucky' that he did not continue.

That is why it is the stronger persons responsibility to check their actions - they are accountable for the situations.

Many women are as strong or stronger than many men.
At the extremes of the spectrum, the strongest of the species tend to be men, yes.

You're right questingvole it's not socialization that makes us more likely to be the loser in physical fights, the ones more likely to be caught by the pursuing wolf pack or the incoming tsunami. The point I was trying to make is that our anatomy is not the sole reason we are weaker, there are social reasons too that make us feel weaker.

Yes, he chose to let you go.

Think of all the countless women in history who have been killed by men. Do you seriously think they could in fact have fought for their lives if only they hadn't been socialised to think they were weak?

I reckon about 99.9% of men and older teenage boys would be able to overpower me if they chose to do so. Which is why, say, I don't let men I don't know in my house if I'm alone.

All men benefit from this power dynamic even if they don't as individuals use their strength against women, because we don't know who the violent men are. So we are more likely e.g. to defer to or not challenge strange men, because we don't know if they are likely to react with violence or not. It's a cost-benefit decision - the risk of provoking a violent man is disproportionately high to me as a woman because of my relative physical weakness.