I am Jazz. ***Trans content. Please do not open if you just want to post insults or whinge about another trans thread***

How is that transit site linked to Helen Webberley? It appears to be a wiki.

The page linked to is horrifyingly emotive and the statistics incorrect. Pushing kids to order potentially unsafe medication from the internet is also dangerous. If kids are desperate because they are being ignored by the NHS then that's going to be an issue.

I've watched a fair bit of I am jazz....to me she seems very sure she is female..it must be utterly devastating to have the body of a man ,but know you are meant to be female...I know I'm female..I would be devestated to have a male body,because I'm female...imagine being you..but when you look down it's a males body..when in yr head yr female..how would you feel?? ..then suddenly doctors are saying they can help you get a female body..who wouldn't take that chance....I would if I'd been born with a penis ,as I know I'm female...I don't feel sorry for jazz...I feel hopeful the doctors can help her,become her true self,even if that means a part of her bowel for a vagina,..if it stops her from committing suicide,and makes her happy ...who are we to judge??

Wow the transit website is scary reading indeed.
Puberty blockers by 10 years old, seriously WTF, and based on what?? The wrong brain in the wrong body bollocks.

When I was 10 I wanted to be a boy, had short hair and called myself Dave (sad but true), played with the boys, racing cars etc.

Puberty happened and guess what I forgot all about wanting to be Dave and became a straight woman.

If all the trans stuff had been available to me during my awkward adolescent years, I would have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

Body dysphoria is surely a normal state for many adolescents but you can get through it without sterilization.

Yes, which gets back to how I first came here I guess, my fears about unprofessional and unthinking professionals who work with children and young people re trans.

JigglyTuff that page is horrifying

Oh yes - I agree. I think there are loads of counsellors taken in by the TRA lies though. Like the 'your trans child will kill themselves if you don't let them transition'

I know re the US and Webberley ... But I'm not referring to surgeons, I'm referring to those paid by the state, or who are counsellors or similar. My point is that it is a lie if 100% do go on to transition and that in the name of transparency this should be made clearer.

Yes it is, Yet. But there is a lot of money in transgender medicine in the US.

And some completely unscrupulous GPs like Helen Webberley: read this horrifying page on her website transit.org.uk/children.html

The notion that PBs just delay puberty to 'give children some thinking time' is a line trotted out by TRAs. It's a lie

Yes. However, it is also espoused by many health professionals.

Is it as extreme as causing a learning disability? That's what it sounds like to me.

If stopping puberty really does have an effect on the normal development of a child's mind, then it isn't really surprising that children on puberty blockers don't change their minds. They haven't been given 'time to think'; they've been left in a state of suspended animation. They don't change their minds because, unlike all their peers, they haven't actually changed. They don't get to go through the maturing process and so won't develop mature critical thinking skills or a world view beyond the one they had aged 11. Puberty blockers just keep children mentally frozen in place until they are physically old enough to take the cross sex hormones, without taking into account that their age and maturity no longer match up.

Puberty blockers are most definitely not harmless and reversible. Lupron, which is widely used, has caused longterm health issues: www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/ in some of the young people who were prescribed it to halt precocious puberty. Note that this article (despite being quite recent) does not mention transgender children at all.

The notion that PBs just delay puberty to 'give children some thinking time' is a line trotted out by TRAs. It's a lie.

Google brings up this study

www.pinktherapy.com/Portals/0/CourseResources/de_Vries_Puberty_Suppression_in_Adolescents_with_GD.pdf

"No adolescent withdrew from puberty suppression, and all started cross sex hormone treatment".

I think the two countering strands of thought are a) that all those children must be genuinely trans.
Or b) transitioning socially is difficult to come back from.

The first premise is difficult to view as concrete, because people can, and do, detransition. But they are then often ostracised by the community.

For me, this is the worst part of it. The silence, the spin, the lack of debate, the absolute determination to allow no oxygen to flow through the discussion.

It obscures the darker side of the ideology, the conflation of transexual with autogynephile, The lack of logic and consistency, the bullying, and the transing of children.

If this is all so clear, why can't we talk about it?

I think there is plenty of evidence that are a) not harmless and b) unlikely to be reversed as they generally go straight on to hormones.

I'll have to google to find an original source, but I think it's pretty much accepted. I've never read of a different statistic.

Is it really? I'm not doubting you, but I am wondering where this comes from and I'm also thinking about all those platitudes of 'oh but PBs just give a child time to think, they are not a path to transition'.

The question is, how many children go on puberty blockers and then decide against starting hormone therapy..

Statistically it's 100%. Which seems a little unbelievable, I know.

I think puberty blockers are reversible. What is irreversible is the following stage - the cross sex hormones. So a child given puberty blockers followed by cross sex hormones will not go through puberty if the hormone therapy is stopped.
The question is, how many children go on puberty blockers and then decide against starting hormone therapy.

I've never once seen it. Ever. And they say that "puberty blockers are harmless and reversible"

Well, maybe, if they are reversed I guess...

Is the lack of flesh for adequate penis construction when transed young acknowledged by the TRAs?

I've never once seen it. Ever. And they say that "puberty blockers are harmless and reversible".

I always took it to mean "the wrong side of the historical record" - i.e. as a statement about how people and actions will be judged in years to come.

Yes that is a literal reading of it, and some people mean it simply like that, but many are putting that teleological sense of "progress" into it, as it's often mentioned in relation to abolition of slavery, US civil rights, gay marriage etc.

The talk of no/delayed puberty got me googling and led me to this interesting piece about what it's like not to go through puberty:

themighty.com/2016/07/receiving-a-late-diagnosis-with-kallmann-syndrome/

I'm a bit uncomfortable about speculating anything about Jazz, his condition or sexuality to be honest. I'm quite sure that there are young people being transed who really should not be because they have comorbid mental illnesses that affect their thinking about their sex, because everyone has got caught up in 'gender means sex' and because they are terribly confused or have been abused and identify as trans because of this, etc. etc., but it really is a complex issue and there are people who have dysmorphia or similar for whom surgery is the only option (this is how it worked in the past). Simply saying 'let them be gay' or 'let them wear sparkles' isn't going to help this latter category (although, obviously, I'm all for the dismantling of gender roles and for it being OK for people to be gay). I think the place at which I stand is that each and every case is different and in its own way complex and we should not make assumptions. At the same time, the process for transing should be strict and rigorous and it should not be assumed that hormones / surgery is the best option.

I've previously read in TRA accounts that it's best to give blockers and then cross-sex hormones in order to prevent a puberty of the opposite sex. This thread has certainly given me food for thought that this is very, very misguided indeed. Is the lack of flesh for adequate penis construction when transed young acknowledged by the TRAs?

Jazz always reminds me of the lad who played Betty's nephew in Ugly Betty. He has grown up to be a happy, healthy gay man, which is what Jazz should have been allowed to become.

We are so far down the rabbit hole that if you don't believe in magical thinking, inner gender and lady brains then you're a bigot.

If you apply Ockham's Razor not one part of this holds water.

Me too.