I am Jazz. ***Trans content. Please do not open if you just want to post insults or whinge about another trans thread***

This was from a twitter thread that has since been deleted.

It was from the UK and the guy posting it said he wouldn't name and shame the clinic as he didn't want to be sued.

If nothing else, it's a huge arse covering exercise!

These children can't sue the hospitals that treat them. The contracts the parents/child sign at the hospitals exclude responsibility for any future negative results of gender surgery.

surely that can't be true? people sue hospitals all the time for things that go wrong, surely they don't have a more in depth waiver for doing experiments on children's bodies than they have for regular surgery?

And what about suing for going ahead with the procedure in the first place when the children weren't old enough to consent? it would only take one trial lawsuit to set a precedent.

It would be interesting what side people who drank the Kool aid would come down on in such a case: the doctors who performed the procedures on children that the TRAs and allies were pushing for, but that have been proven harmful, or the child victim tearing down the trans edifice.

I imagine there would be a lot of backpedalling, and people claiming that they had always thought it was wrong.

These children can't sue the hospitals that treat them. The contracts the parents/child sign at the hospitals exclude responsibility for any future negative results of gender surgery.

Maybe they will sue the government for watching this predictable train wreak happening and not stopping it.

Poor children, they deserved clear parenting which told them to wait until 18yo (minimum) until doing such permenant damage to their bodies.

"Most children go through a gender confusion/experimentation phase, as early as 3 or 4"

My dc talked about being a cat between 3-5. Always wanted to play being a cat with me or her sibling, would sit in the laundry basket pretending it as her bed and make cat sounds driving me up the wall. Kids just enact stuff they go through. Dc wanted to be a cat and sometimes really felt like a cat whatever that might feel like.

According to trans ideology I should have pushed for dc to get a tail and cat ears at the very least.

I am not making this up dc was totally into this. --Thank heavens not any longer-.

Sometimes 'transing' seems to be more about removing erogenous zones and keeping trans women as children. I am sure many Victorian doctors would recognise the theory behind the medicine.

www.oregonlive.com/transgender-health/2017/07/about_a_boy_jays_life_as_a_tra.html?src=longreads

This came up on my FB feed today - an extremely troubled/mentally unwell girl having her breasts surgically removed at 15/16.

Drug companies.

Possibly doctors or providers.

I'm not sure about parents.

People only sue people with money.

And the media industry too.

She'll be on screens for a while yet. There'll be documentaries about why the documentaries were a bad idea.

Then documentaries about why those documentaries-about-documentaries were a bad idea too.

Why do the TAs not want genuine, non biased, research

I don't know yes I do-, but back to the 'wrong side of history" I'm positive that there will be some very sad legal cases in the next decade or so.

I just think if the information in this thread stops an adult trans person thinking "if only my parents had listened to me when I was a child, I could have become a more passable woman or had an easier adolescence", or stops a parent from thinking they are doing the right thing by acting on their child's wishes to be the opposite sex, or even from feeling guilty if they choose not to do anything about it, then that is wholly positive.

Why do the TAs not want genuine, non biased, research
I know drug companies stand to profit but who else is driving this ideology

There are dozens of threads of people accusing one another of transphobia, that's what I meant.

There are lots of threads where there is disagreement. But a lot of it is pretty tame compared to the general AIBU battlefield.

I don't want to derail this thread either, as it's about Jazz and the issues around children 'transitioning'.
I just found this thread enlightening, as I never thought about the physical impact on blocking puberty, and the after effects of that.

Everyone, including me, are wary of disputing the stats. No one wants to be responsible for people minimising suicide in kids!

What I'd be most interested to find is a study that showed that medical and/or surgical intervention had a demonstrable positive effect on suicidal ideation. I suspect that there are higher rates of SI amongst populations that are transgender (and likely gay/lesbian too). In fact the research does support this. BUT it is not clear whether there are confounding factors (i.e. - comorbidity, lack of particular supports that don't include medical interventions, etc.) and there is no consideration of environmental factors (i.e. people talking about suicide near them, being on the internet and thinking they need to report suicidal ideation to get treatment, etc.). Also, the studies I have seen only compare trans young people to 'normal' populations, not to (say) adolescents who have been diagnosed with other similar conditions such as anorexia.

There are dozens of threads of people accusing one another of transphobia, that's what I meant. Lots of people on here don't agree that a person can be born in the wrong body. If an intelligent adult feels this way and wants to change that, that's up to them and I won't challenge them. A child though is an entirely different case.

YetAnother - there are lots of bits of research linked to in the article I posted yesterday about the effects of Lupron on young people's health

Agree - but it's a mishmash of conflicting studies many of which have small samples and not all of which consider the target population.

having dipped into so many transphobic MN threads where I don't understand the hatred and hostility towards trans people

I remain utterly confused what you mean here. Not wanting to derail, but many threads on MN have been on very similar topics to this one and I've not seen any hatred / transphobia that hasn't immediately been removed, and none by regular FWR posters... ???

YetAnother - there are lots of bits of research linked to in the article I posted yesterday about the effects of Lupron on young people's health: www.statnews.com/2017/02/02/lupron-puberty-children-health-problems/

"having dipped into so many transphobic MN threads where I don't understand the hatred and hostility towards trans people."

Can you please give an example of this hatred and hostility? Link to a thread?

Because no one ever does give an example; people talk about hatred and transphobia with no explanation, and what they actually do is make any and all discussion of the real life ramifications for people like Jazz into a no-go zone.

Thank you for starting this thread. Finally a thread on the subject that makes sense to me and which is very informative and educational, having dipped into so many transphobic MN threads where I don't understand the hatred and hostility towards trans people. What's happening to Jazz is terrifying and people need to be educated on it urgently. Most children go through a gender confusion/experimentation phase, as early as 3 or 4 - my DD certainly talks frequently of wanting to be a boy, but she isn't, and if she wants Spider Man pyjamas and to play with cars, she can, without any fuss. But she knows she's a girl, and why would I take any action just because she wants to explore things that are traditionally for boys? She's just learning, exploring, experimenting, being curious, figuring out in a very rudimentary way who she is, as any healthy child should.

I don't have any problem with adults choosing to transition or who identify as x, y or z. But falsely believing you are giving your child a choice to make such a huge decision is dangerous and terrifying and ultimately very tragic.

Now I will go back and read the rest of this thread!

YetAnotherSpartacus

If you have access to that, that would be great.

Everyone, including me, are wary of disputing the stats. No one wants to be responsible for people minimising suicide in kids!

By the same token, if it's being used as leverage with no foundation, people should know.

What do you do you get is page after page talking about the high suicide rate. With no actual stats

Yes - it would be interesting to look this one up in the academic literature...

Yes, Gendertrender is biased. But they also unearth hidden agendas.

Struggling to find data is no coincidence.

I seriously think there is an agenda here.

I constantly google to find stats for teens, in case the TRA line of them being such a vulnerable group is being understated/overstated.

I've tried googling trans teen suicide to get stats. You can't get at them. There either haven't been any in the UK or they are rare.

What do you do you get is page after page talking about the high suicide rate. With no actual stats.