I am Jazz. ***Trans content. Please do not open if you just want to post insults or whinge about another trans thread***

"Jazz would have become a feminine-presenting young man and gay" That sounds lovely. And authentic. And diverse. And fabulous. A real human being being allowed to be and thrive with all his facets and free to choose who he wants to date. Would have probably made a nice gay guy very happy and vice versa .

I am curious about whether Jazz could come off the cross-sex hormones and go through male puberty. I know Jazz would still have breast tissue, but it is not uncommon for men with hormone imbalances to develop breast tissue (gynaecomastia) and have that tissue removed surgically. As others have noted, it seems possible - even likely, given their interest in dating boys- that left to it, Jazz would have become a feminine-presenting young man and gay. I have read on here that very few adolescents who start hormone therapy desist, but is that because of social pressure/'in for a penny, in for a pound' thinking or because there's no way back medically?

However, including the T in LGBT means that people associate trans with the horrors of homosexuality being illegal, gay conversion therapy, homosexuality as a paraphilia etc. That means kids are convinced they're on the right side of history with trans and that bio textbooks need rewriting.

It all shows such a terrible lack of critical thinking. Our idea of 'history' changes all the time - what was it Napoleon said? That it was just a set of lies that we had all agreed upon? That seems particularly pertinent in these circumstances.
You can't be on the wrong side of biology, though, it's immutable fact!

And for everyone not wanting to repeat the mistakes made with the lgb community - what on earth is transing gender non-conforming children but gay conversion therapy - with added surgery and drugs!

Poor Jazz. He's being experimented on and no one is stopping it.

I have heard TW say they have cycles - they don't bleed but they think that their HRT gives them cycles. HRT for transwomen doesn't do that. And lots of lovely libfems telling them they probably do and yay for them.

Sometimes I truly despair at women's stupidity. We're so keen to be inclusive, we're inviting the wolf in and laying them a place at the table.

I can maybe get having "symptoms" such as moodiness and possibly hunger but maybe more so not. I mean, where do all the female hormones go that they guzzle down? Maybe it creates some emotional imbalance after a build up?

It's all bull though and I think wanting to change your body to that of the opposite sex is a mental illness and nothing to be ashamed of, but to do this and have it encouraged by doctors is weird and I reckon a social experiment and the victims are those that really believe in being transgender.

I sound like a hater but it's because I just don't get it, but I have science to back up why I don't get it.

Is this what 'trans women' do? That's completely disturbed.

Some of them, yes.

"If you don't have a uterus and you are cramping, I suggest it's more to do with the requirement for a laxative."

Is this what 'trans women' do? That's completely disturbed.

I mean WTF I'd happily and joyful get rid of that aspect of womanhood.

Enough. Of. This. Shit. Take the bloody T out of LGBT and leave schools alone. It does make you think who in government is supporting this and why? Secret fetish someone?

There was an article on unilad the other day on a 'man' who had given birth. The comments on it from adults (and tbf some teens) were quite comforting, the responses from a lot of teens were beyond scary though.

WTAFisthisshit

That was a mild one. I've seen so many youngsters saying things like 'but transwomen can give birth, fact'.

If you are cramping whilst menstruating, the most basic requirement is a uterus.

If you don't have a uterus and you are cramping, I suggest it's more to do with the requirement for a laxative.

alpaca my kids actually are pretty gender critical, but what some of the mates are coming out with is frightening! One is planning a sex change so that she can father a child with her girlfriend! I've tried explaining why this isn't possible but she's 'read about it on the internet' my DD believes me, but her mate doesn't. Schools need to be covering acceptance of trans in PSHE but basic facts need to be gone over repeatedly in Biology as well.

Biology is taught. However, including the T in LGBT means that people associate trans with the horrors of homosexuality being illegal, gay conversion therapy, homosexuality as a paraphilia etc. That means kids are convinced they're on the right side of history with trans and that bio textbooks need rewriting.

Datun Seriously is biology not taught in schools these days??? Why the children not being taught basic biology and having their MH issues dealt with? This is insane.

I feel desperately sorry for Jazz Jennings, who has been sold an absolute lie by the people who should have been looking out for her, and no dolls and TV shows will make up for what she has suffered.

See this is what I don't fucking get!

They say to drop the stereotypes etc and us women have to accept that not all women bleed (dumbasses) but it's ok for them to say "you like girls toys but have a penis? You are trans go and chop it off and say you are a girl" it's all stupid and pathetic and makes me sick to be honest.

I'm sorry but innocent people have lost their children for a lot less, yet these parents of "Jazz" are allowed to mutilate and mild their child into what they want and get money out of it all! Sick, sick, sick!

That poor child. He has been badly let down.

I haven't taken biology class in decades, but I'm pretty sure they still won't start with Chapter 1, 'Chemicals and Souls'.

PickingOakum

This sort of nonsense is becoming rife.

That's given me a lot to think about, Datun.

PickingOakum

From what I have read the profile of late transitioning males is that they are generally the autogynephiles, the fetishist cross-dressers.

They are usually married, often more than once. And have fathered children, often have more than one family.

The "affinity" with womanhood comes from the cross dressing. It's entirely sexual and involves heavy porn use. It's frequently accompanied by feelings of guilt and shame. Memories of masturbating into family members' under wear , etc.

Secrecy and furtiveness are a part of it. If they 'come out ', that is often accompanied by a divorce. Coming out also, occasionally, seems lower the drive. As secrecy diminishes, so does the excitement.

However forcing people to use pronouns and treat them as a woman, is arousing.

It can also get rather bizarre when the desire to subsume womanhood directs self at biological functions like periods, childbirth, breastfeeding, etc. Taking an unhealthy interest in it, disguised as empathy or sympathy. Many videos on YouTube of AGP individuals claiming they have periods, using Tampax or attempting to breastfeed/produce milk.

So, in terms of your theory: I think they would be drawn towards things that are particularly for women, not avoid them. But because the interest is sexual, there is no understanding or appreciation of the material reality.

And as for joining typically male dominated jobs or sports, I think this could be an attempt to counter their hidden life of cross dressing. Because it does become a huge compulsion. And part of it is to be humiliated, cissification, etc. Presumably when that is accompanied by huge feelings of guilt and shame, there is a need to counteract it.

"Is a feeling of distress or repugnance over your genitalia automatically accompanied with wanting the genitalia of the opposite sex?"

I'm sorry but if this is the case then women who are unhappy with their breast size or shape should get breast surgery on the NHS. If anyone is unhappy with their natural hair colour they ought to demand their hair colouring is paid by the NHS.

"He was 9. They'd been talking about trans issues at school"
Anyone who wants to protect their dc from this outrageous policy development: start talking to your primary age dc now.

Explain to them that human beings are male of female in terms of sex but that they should feel free to express themselves the way it works and pursue (legal) relationships that they find fulfilling, whatever their sex.

Explain to your dc whilst some people believe in the 'wrong body tale' (like some people believe in Jesus, Buddha, Muhamed, jedis, aliens) we in our family know that being in the wrong body is scientifically impossible, it's a belief not a measurable fact and never will be.

Whilst we respect other people's beliefs and sympathise with people who are troubled about their identity we don't need to buy into this narrative. We prefer to develop our own beliefs and lifestyle regardless of whether we have a penis or a vagina.

I will prep mine especially as I used to be a so called tomboy but am definitely sexually hetero and happy, have succesfully procreated and bf but I am also a brown belt in Karate and an active member in my shooting club. I have no time for bloody gender stereotypes e.g. high heels, frilly bloody clothes etc. We all carry typically male and female characteristics and likes it's a continuum, let's fight for this to be ok without mutilating confused and vulenarble individuals.

Sex is binary, gender is a construct and definitely not binary i'd argue that gender doesn't exist. It's sex discrimination not gender discretion ffs. For if I wear not typically 'feminine' garments, wear my hair short and am a carpenter I can still be in need of place at the women's refuge and I still need sanpro and contraception if I don't want to get pregnant.

Fuck gender.

Why are late transitioning transwomen over represented in male dominated areas, like tech, the military, etc.

I've thought about this a fair bit, and wonder whether it is because of the limited exposure to the female experience you have in your life if you are male and work in a male-dominated profession.

I would be fascinated to test this theory by discovering whether there are any late transitioning transwomen who have worked as obstetricians or gynecologists, for example.

I'd also be interested to know how many late mtt transitioners who have had families with female spouses were actually present at the births of their children.

I guess my thinking here is that the more a male has exposure to and engages in supportive involvement with genuine biological female experiences, the more they must, surely, recognise their own maleness in contrast?

For example, I just can't get my head around the notion of a male who supports and observes his female partner through pregnancy and birth, sees his child being born, engages in support with breastfeeding, and then thinks "I'm just like a woman."

Surely, a rational human wouldn't be able to actually process such a level of doublethink?

But if you have no experience of such things: say, you are very young, or have never had much familiarity with women, or many women in your personal sphere etc, it could be a lot more easier to make that identification because then your notion of womanhood is more likely to be influenced by very gendered, stereotypical and reductivist representations in mass media.

YetAnotherSpartacus

Sorry, this is quite difficult to get a complete handle on. Partly because the words are so similar, but also because I think you are right. They are both being bundled together.

So dysmorphia, gender dysmorphia would be feeling of distress over your sexed genitals? Specific and describable.

Gender dysphoria a feeling that you are the opposite sex - a mental, internal feeling? So you're female, which means your body is female, despite the penis?

So two things.

Is a feeling of distress or repugnance over your genitalia automatically accompanied with wanting the genitalia of the opposite sex?

And secondly, I haven't seen any transperson talk about dysmorphia, of any description. Only gender dysphoria. They often describe it as hating their genitals, but it can also be just a feeling of wrongness, generally, in their sex.

So they are using the one term for both different types?

Adalind - no. That's not it. I don't think I'm up to explaining again right now. Later ...

Gah, typed Dysmorphia twice. Second para should start "Gender dysphoria, on the other hand..."

Dysphoria is a blanket term which will encompass those who feel discomfort about the shape of their bodies, AND those who feel quite okay with their bodies but think they are the opposite "gender" to that "assigned" to them by most of the people around them.

Is it the difference between believing your body should be the opposite sex and wishing it was the opposite sex? A subtle distinction I admit