What's wrong with being a SAHM?

Okay, leaving aside the perversity of posting on a feminism board with the opener "I am not a feminist", here's a check list of stuff to make sure you have sewn up properly, financially and legally, before you become a SAHM (since you talk about your partner rather than your husband).

Joint accounts. If he takes the view that his money is now his because he's the earner, walk away from the relationship, do not have children with this man.

In the event of death - make sure he is well insured. Check the value of your house, because the one advantage of marriage which cannot be reproduced in any other way is that you are exempt from inheritance tax on your late spouse's estate. If you live in London/SE, chances are your house, even a very modest house, will take you well over the inheritance threshold. Make sure your insurance takes this into account. Likewise, insure yourself - if you stepped under a bus, he'd have to pay for a nanny, cleaner, etc, or radically downscale his job, earnings potential and lifestyle.

Possible separation - after all, something like 1 in 4 first marriages end in divorce, so although you think your relationship is for ever, the odds suggest that it's a possibility you should take seriously. Make sure the mortgage is in joint names and that you agree to split the proceeds of any sale 50-50 in the event of you separating. Note that it does not matter that after you become a SAHM the payments will come 100% out of his salary. You are in effect saving him the cost of a nanny, cleaner, cook-housekeeper. The assets of the relationship should be tied up legally to be 50-50. If he is not happy with this, again, walk away from the relationship now before you have children.

No doubt others will have more suggestions.

On a personal level, if you think it's what you'd like to do then I'm sure you won't regret it.

I'm not sure about that, plenty of people do - you read all about it on MN!
Be aware that what could be a completely freely made choice at the time could be regretted later and resentment could appear.
When I quit working it was my choice, DH supported my decision but it was 100% my choice. If he'd have objected, there would have been issues.
Now, 12 year's later, kids are all at school and I'm stuck wondering what I'm going to do, and wishing I'd kept some career plans going.
I've read on MN that other people start to resent and blame their husbands - they didn't give up their career, did they? But in my case it was my choice so I can't blame him, but there's a little of it there.
Plus, doesn't being a SAHM contribute to the gender pay gap? Going back to work 10 year's later you won't be paid what you would be if you stayed in work 10 years.

I chose to be a SAHP. I wanted to do this. My DC's in their teens now. My DH is great, I don't feel exploited. I felt more exploited when I worked.

TBH I get pretty sick of this 'dependent' rhetoric. When my DC was small they were dependent on me. Childcare would have been difficult due my DC being assessed, when young, and found to have some 'learning difficulties'. Not that it has held them back, they have overcome them and now are attaining above average. But it wasn't an easy path, there were meetings and assessments and for the first year of primary flexible schools hours. I had to put a lot of input in towards pretty much extra teaching at home. It was worth it but as the SAHP this fell to me to sort out. Picking up my career was the very last thing on my mind. All this time we were somewhat dependent financially on my DH.

I have recently have had a diagnosis of breast cancer. Yep, still dependent and not jus financially this time. And dependent on extended family too.

Does all this mean I can't be a feminist? I hope not. I'm brining up my DC, I can pass on my ideals. I can still contribute. Does the work I do and have done have less meaning because it is not paid?

The dependent rhetoric infuriates me. Having money does not make someone a feminist. Feminism surely is more about outlook and how you view the world and treat others.

I am a feminist. I see feminism as the belief in equality between men and women so I do find it hard when people, especially women, proudly proclaim themselves not to be feminists. It does kind of make me ask why you care what feminists think if you are so keen to dissociate yourself from the label?

Anyway. Despite my feminism, I make all kinds of decisions in my day to day life that I would not consider feminist decisions. Compromises with the patriarchal world we live in, taking the path of least resistance, habit. I think that's just being human. I don't need the entirety of world feminism cheering on and validating my every choice.

I don't believe being a sahm is a feminist choice. It offers no challenge to the status quo, it often means you are financially dependent on your husband (who also becomes more tied to his work/providing income), it perpetuates the idea that women are caregivers and men providers. That is not the same as saying it is a bad choice. There are many reasons to become a sahm, and the current world we live in makes this an attractive option for many individual women. I would never presume to tell an individual that she is making the wrong choice for her.

But in large numbers, these decisions contribute to a world where men and women have very different options and outcomes particularly in relation to work and family.

I consider myself a feminist and was a sahm for 25 years.
I'd done the career bit, travelled and it's what I wanted to do above everything else.
I do agree with making yourself financially safe as much as you can.
I had to have equal access to money, my dh refused to go down the housekeeping money route or an allowance.
You both need to be on the same page ito managing finances otherwise resentment could build up, this happened to friends of mine.
I know nobody likes to think they'll break up but it happens and marriage will protect you best.

Good luck, OP.

My observation is that the SAHM thing is really only an enjoyable, fulfilling experience if you're shackled to a deeply enlightened man.

One who doesn't take you for granted, one who doesn't expect you to do all the childcare, child raising, home-related slogging and skiving, and all the night time wakes.

Many men are perfectly enlightened when you're both on an even keel, but as you descend into your domestic world, the neanderthal just can't help emerging.

If you have one of the truly enlightened ones, you're good to go.

Assuming you're coming back to the thread.

P.S. Who comes onto the feminist forum and announces they're not a feminist....?

I'd agree with helterskelter99

I'm not working so I can look after my DS at the minute. I've protected myself as best I can before I left work and can keep my skills up to date by doing some contracting occasionally.

We don't do the the 50's style housewife thing though. My job is looking after DS, not being a domestic slave, I'd go slowly insane otherwise.

I was previously told on here that feminists don't think woman should work, they think woman should have the right to choose if they work or SAH. I've largely been a SAHM, I enjoy it and think all woman are equally worthy of having their choices respected whether they're working in or out of their home.

Rose
I rarely post in here, but I lurk and learn. There are many knowledgeable people here who have considered views and seem open to having their views challenged.

You are apparently a woman and are posting in the feminist section. Yet you've opened by stating that you are not a feminist

It astounds me that any woman can declare she is not a feminist.

But I see this a lot from younger women, who have not yet entered the badlands of juggling babies and work and how your identity and societal position changes once you acquire the status of mother.

Pre-mothering women seem to think that they won't be like me. That they won't become haggard and harassed and stridently feminist.

Well, I think I was probably like you once....until I was dealing with non-sleeping children and then getting up to go to work in the morning.

It's tough going.

You've asked what do feminists think is wrong with your plan?
Nothing wrong with it.
But I doubt that it is a plan made with a full understanding of the personal, financial, societal and long-term implications of that decision.

It's protecting yourself that's the key of one of you is earning what happens if they can't or get made redundant or decide to leave

I work so we have a home and food without struggling but also so I know I can always support myself whatever life throws at me

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with it except you make yourself financially dependant on another human.

If you break up or they die you will have been out of the workforce for x years.

People can have their names on everything so that come a break up things are split fairly, hopefully. But people may have taken themselves out of a well paying career whilst their partner has forged ahead. Who knows if you can get back in.

The partner may then muck about with maintenance. I have known two women whose partners have gone to work abroad to avoid maintenance. One fought and has sort of managed to get recompense but she is a lawyer so did all the dealing with courts abroad herself, not easy.

How have the relationships panned out of the women I have known from school and college, so 20 + years.

Very variable indeed, some shocks such as my lovely friend who is a nurse practitioner. Her fiancee ran off with one of her work colleagues. All manner of unexpected stuff, deaths, divorces, ill health, emotional abuse and one who has ended up with a cocklodger, Then the good stuff. I think atround 50% of us have ended up with decent long term partners and good financial stability. I suppose that the holy grail of relationships. It's a shocker sometimes how things turn out.

There is nothing wrong with it. However the reality for a lot of women is very different to the fantasy, it's not all rice crispie cakes and sing alongs, often it's screaming kids, mess, housework and abject loneliness to the extent a toddler group becomes a life saver.

In addition being out of the workplace for a long time can impact on ability to get back in, as well as dent confidence. If something goes wrong, from illness of a partner or divorce it leaves you horribly vulnerable, no one ever dreams these things will happen to them.

In addition no matter how supportive a partner is at the beginning or how important the role is stated as, often many women start to feel less, less than their wage earning partner or their wage earning friends, because they earn the money and the stay at home mum often feels they don't have as many rights to the major say.

Couple that with after a few years out, many women get used to it. Then they find their partner wants them to go back but they don't want to and lack the confidence. They don't want to go into a lower role and it starts to damage the marriage and resentment creeps in on both sides.

I met so many stay at home mums when my daughter was at school ( privately educated) and they all wanted to tell me what they " used to do" like in some way it kind of validated them, even though I hadn't asked. They raised it.

I worked throughout, and yes at times it was hard. But I never considered quitting and looking back now it was the right decision for our family. My career took off, financially we are much more comfortable than we would be and my 20 year old daughter asks me for career advice and she takes my feedback seriously, because I didn't do it twenty years ago, I did it throughout and I'm still doing it.

So where as you haven't asked the benefits, I think on the downside, it does have some negatives, that very many women have come to regret.

I'm lucky enough to have got part time hours now. I work three days a week in a demanding job. I enjoy it and I like my days 'off' when I can get housework done and spend time with the kids.
But if I was at home every day I would go round the bend. Groundhog Day. It's dull wiping crumbs of floors and having conversations about potty training.
But, like many women I know, I have to work to keep a roof over our heads.

Having a quiet chuckle at the nosy bastards they are everywhere.

My favourite is 'but what will you do when they are all at school'
My answer, whatever i bloody well want it will be heaven!

I've managed to be a feminist and be a SAHM

There is nothing wrong with it at all. It's great to be able to look after your children every day.

The reality of it can be very dull though. Its really hard to get back in to work and you do become the main parent.
Personally I've found working at least one day a week the best for us as a family.

OP why do you want the views of others on your completely hypothetical lifestyle?

Particularly why do you want the views of a group to which you don't align yourself and plainly don't understand?

Isn't that the equivalent of a self obsessed teen telling people about their dreams ?

I am a sahp. To counter what husky said a little bit, you will also encounter people who think you should be back at work and that sah isn't demonstrating good work ethic/setting the right example to your dc.
The default setting is for families to have 2 working parents, I think.

So whatever you do (woh or sah), be aware that some nosy bastard will have an opinion on it and try to make you feel in the wrong, whether you've asked to hear their pov or not!

Weigh up the pros and cons - these are not always the same for everyone, but understand you could be up shit creek if the marriage goes pear shaped. Be aware of pension details and all your financial situation - ensure your name is on all the bsnk accounts/mortgages/investments. The women who get screwed by sah are the ones who know FA about their family money and trust their dh's to do it all.

Incidentally, if you believe in having equality of opportunity wrt education, employment, healthcare, legal representation etc, thrn you are a feminist. It has nothing to do with whether you choose to sah or not, except in that sah is not something men usually choose snd as said upthread, you won't be making that choice from a truly equal starting point to your husband.

Do you think you should have a choice in whether you work or be a SAHM? Do you think your daughter should be able to do any job your son does and get paid the same? Then you are a feminist.

I'm a SAHM, and I adore it! I was previously a Teacher, and had no idea if I'd like being a sahm, but now the thought of doing any paid employment fills me with dread (apart from the money).

I hate the assumptions and expectations in society nowadays that women should go back to work as soon as possible. Surely women should do what is best/necessary for them and their families.

I think it's important that women have the choice to work or be a sahm.

being a sahp is not a feminist decision. Whether more men stay at home, or not. It's just a decision. And you are a lucky person in this world, if you have a choice in the matter. There are women all over the globe raising their children AND working. I wish people would quit gurning about decisions they are making. You don't need everyone to approve of your decisions all the time

There's nothing wrong with it but it can leave you very vulnerable financially. I agree it's rather naive to think you can pick up a a career after a decade out. I'd go back part time if I were you.

And you might not be the best mother when you're crawling the walls with boredom and tiredness .

There is nothing inherently unfeminist about choosing to be a SAHP.

Mostly it is women who stay at home with children for a couple of main reasons: women are seen as being nurturing and motherly, so it "makes sense" for her to stay at home and men have far higher earning capacity in the general scheme of things, so it "makes sense" for the woman to give up her job/career.

Quite apart from the usual advice about keeping your hand in with whatever your chosen career path is in order to future proof it, or keeping savings to the side should the worst happen, what you are proposing to do is to take on a massive financial burden, while choosing to live on less than half of your income, while creating a 1950's idyll at a time of enormous economic uncertainty.

So, I don't think your friends are being "weird" about it at all. I would surmise that, because they are your friends, they are merely worried about perfectly sensible potential outcomes to your decisions.

So, insure your husband against redundancy and anything else that could stick a cog in the works and recreate your own Martha Stewart world, but never forget that Martha Stewart is also an astute businesswoman who has made a lot of money out of selling a lifestyle dream.

But, I wouldn't make you 'feel weird'...what do you mean by that?

It leaves most women very vulnerable. Becoming financially dependent on your husband (or anyone) renders most women 'trapped'. So you build a life, which someone else is paying for and that would be very scarey to exit, if you wanted to leave the relationship. So, lots of women remain in abusive or even just unsatisfactory relationships

This ^

I don't care about amazing holidays we have done that smile or fancy cars, both had what we wanted and now have got sensible cheaper cars. We are married and have a lovely home

This isn't why I work. I work because I get my sense of self from my professional identity (to some degree). I am proud of my achievements and enjoy my chosen career. Just saying, because I wasn't sure if you were implying that this is why married women work (not that I'm married).

But then I think for SAHP to be a genuinely feminist decision, we'd need to see more men consider staying at home, part time working etc

This^ too.

It sounds like you have a very idealised vision of life as a SAHM and (as River) says you're putting a lot of pressure on yourself. I had a wry smile at 'tea on the table'. Yesterday I struggled to get jacket potatoes and beans on the table, while wrangling a grumpy 4 year old and a very grumpy teething 1 year old. The reality of being at home can be very different to your image of it, even if you don't have particularly difficult babies/children. Honestly- don't make hasty decisions about how you're going to parent/whether you're going back to work/how many children you'll have until you've actually had a baby and tried being at home.