What's wrong with being a SAHM?

turtle, thanks

Clarity you are a genius. Your comments on this thread are inspiring.

OK. So much haven't read the whole thread but honestly, and I've worked with other peoples kids for a looong time, it is so different from having your own.

Pm when you find out I'm right. You will find this out. It is as different as being a passenger on a plane as to being a pilot.

So who watches the cameras? I find that really creepy.

Reckon you should start to plan your own daycare centre.

My children are 1, 2 and 4. Honestly, I am/was? the hard as nails professional who whipped people into shape. Well, a bit anyway.

What cameras? A VIP? Diplomatic person or other?

And, yes thank you. Its been awful.

I stopped replying to you earlier in the thread claritytobeclear precisely because of posts like that where you argue against points no-one has been making.

My post refers to the topic of the thread, NoMine, which questions whether a woman staying at home to raise her children, instead of going out to work, is an 'unfeminist' choice to make. No matter how much you try to ignore my points, they are relevant to the OP.

And by the same logic, who was arguing this, following, which you posted?

If only women were still confined to the home and had no rights to own property, have bank accounts, work and so forth.

Are you expecting to have the childcare side of things down pat because you're a nanny? Our nanny thought that, she says looking after her own child was nothing like looking after other people's and the fact that it was so much harder was a massive shock.

I stopped replying to you earlier in the thread claritytobeclear precisely because of posts like that where you argue against points no-one has been making.

I agree/d with everything in your op. I'm now divorcing my stbxh for domestic abuse. I am a string professional woman. It is frightening how vulnerable you become as a sahp. Other than that I totally agree with your op.

Maybe the point is, NoMine, that women who have decided to stay at work, upon having children are not necessarily furthering the feminist cause, any more than those who have decided to stay at home to rear their children. If they remain the victims of male exploitation both at work and in the home but still extol the 'feminist' virtues of themselves working, over than staying at home to raise children, without challenging their own oppression, it seems somewhat hypocritical.

Maybe we should start listening to how women as individuals, who have made different choices, and have had differing experiences, really feel and respecting that over any received ideology.

Ahhh the dreams of being a sahm...before you have dc. I think that most of what you are saying isn't relevant until you are a sahm.
Some people love it and do it for a long time, imo throwing away any chance of independence they once held with a job but if you're like me you will swan around pregnant saying how incredible it's all going to be staying at home enjoying baby until you get a smack in the face of reality when baby is here and it's so fucking hard you go running back to work asap to regain some kind of feeling of being a fully functioning adult again.
I also wanted three pre having dd and now never want another. Ever.
So there you go. I hope it all goes well for you though.

Oh and it's obviously the fault of feminism when men don't do their fair share of household work (even though there was a thread on here last week in which numerous posts were made saying it was sexist against men for someone on a Facebook group to have complained about her husband specifically not doing housework).

all feminism has done for my friends is drive them to exhaustion,ohh woopy do we can have a job .and still do everything at home...

Yes, it would have been much better if feminism had never come along and spoilt everything. If only women were still confined to the home and had no rights to own property, have bank accounts, work and so forth. Inspired by this I shall endeavour to never have to work to strike back against the evil feminists who made this a possibility.

eezer women marry sexist men.

It's not confined to women who work or not. If you do find yourself saddled with one, it's surely better to at least have an income of your own?

This is an interesting discussion from the OP's point of view - she gets to ponder on her idealised view of life as a SAHM, without the inconvenience of knowing what it's actually like. Which is where everyone else is coming from.

She has it all figured out. Or at least, all decided.

Nothing will resonate, except true experience, hence the 'good luck' in my earlier post.

I do think woman should be the care giver and the man should be the protector and provider.

I was going to engage and comment but not after this I can't!

Eezer

Most married women I know fir your description above.
It must be the reason for so many divorces, who wants to have to work and do all the domestic and remaining childcare.

Bluntness100- yes it may be contradictory but it's what I think

But it's a terrible thing to think. It really is. I can't understand how you could remotely think it. It's fine to think you personally should be the care giver but to think that all women by nature of their gender should be is appalling.

Will you bring your son up to believe his partner should care for their kids? He should find a nice wife who wants to stay home? Frown upon a daughter in law who works? Or a son in law who doesn't?

Women fought so hard to have rights, to fight against that horrible stereotype that women care and men provide, because history shows us that stereotype didn't work out well for women, did it? We are capable of so very much more. Yet you just think it?

I've not read the whole thread so just jumping in here...I've a number of friends who work full time,juggle childcare / housework/ cooking /washing....they have husbands ...who work...period...feminism did nothing for them..they feel everything should be split 50/50.. but their husbands .dont load the dishwasher properly,don't iron don't cook any kids meals other than pizza..in fact they do nothing properly other than work..my poor friend one in particular is run to the ground..all her wages go in the join account for bills...all feminism has done for my friends is drive them to exhaustion,ohh woopy do we can have a job .and still do everything at home...

I agree that our choices are our own, but I can see beyond the individual to see when my choices are not feminist. You seem to be really taking offence that someone might consider your individual choices to be unfeminist, I don't have a problem with it.

What constitutes a feminist choice? One that does not reference gender stereotypes and in made completely freely by the individual? Or one which references gender stereotypes and rebels against them?

With regard to your example of single sex changing rooms, it is a fact that men commit 98% of sexual crime. Again, for me any sensible man knows that even if he personally wouldn't assault a woman, he knows that it happens far too often and therefore won't object to sensible precautions (ie not putting the individual first).

So this choice references gender stereotypes. However how does it act in opposition do them? I can see it is done for the purposes of protection but how does referencing gender stereotypes and not acting in opposition of them particularly feminist? It is in one way, as it protects the safety of women but not in another, because it does nothing to challenge the gender stereotype of women being vulnerable, weak and defenceless.

Maybe there is a way to protect women and challenge the traditional gender stereotypes? Secure, staffed, unisex family changing villages and toilets, which would allow for complete individual privacy would do this.

My mother was never at home. She worked all the time! And when she wasn't working she was nagging and cleaning.

This suggests to me that your dad might've been a brilliant stay at home parent, but as a man was not expected to be a housewife/housekeeper at the same time. Nagging and cleaning indeed. I should imagine there are very very few women who could say the same.

I am a stay at home mother and proud feminist. It is very difficult to talk about the choice to have a parent staying at home with the kids without it sounding like criticism to those who don't. I have been in plenty of arguments on here about how WOHMs cannot possibly do all the same things as SAHMs as well as working (purely because they can't be in two places at once) and the attitude towards SAHMs is revealed as often contemptuous and resentful of that choice.

I won't pretend that I made my choice from a completely level playing field - I earned much less than my H because of my traditionally feminine education, training and career 'choices'. It made no short-term financial sense not to stay at home (but I should've considered the long term prospects more). I truly think my children have benefited from my being at home, but people will always take that as me thinking working parents are doing their kids a disservice.

Somehow the work of caring for and educating children is only valued if you are being paid by someone else to do it. I suppose ultimately it's capitalism, because you stop being an economic unit for a while and therefore you're not a valid member of society.

What I can say about being an SAHM is that it is rewarding in some ways and very frustrating in others. It's lonely and you don't get any immediate positive feedback the way you do if you're doing a good job at work. You don't get an annual review and the positive results are almost impossible to quantify and take a long time to reveal themselves if they ever do.

So as long as we're capitalists, and as long as we don't pay SAHPs, and as long as the decisions made are based on unequal beginnings then it's not the feminist choice. But then I'm not sure being a WOHM is either.

I agree that our choices are our own, but I can see beyond the individual to see when my choices are not feminist. You seem to be really taking offence that someone might consider your individual choices to be unfeminist, I don't have a problem with it.

With regard to your example of single sex changing rooms, it is a fact that men commit 98% of sexual crime. Again, for me any sensible man knows that even if he personally wouldn't assault a woman, he knows that it happens far too often and therefore won't object to sensible precautions (ie not putting the individual first).

Sorry, I'm probably not explaining that very well.

OP I'm lazy and haven't read the full thread but to answer your question I think it's your idea of striving to be the perfect 'housewife' that comes across as weird rather than being a SAHM. Seriously, nothing can prepare you for being a parent and the intensity of it. You really can't make any assumptions about how you are going to feel about it until it's a reality. You might find yourself desperate to get back to work, so don't burn any bridges yet.

I never thought I'd be a SAHM, but I've just handed my notice in following birth of dc3 last year. It's what I want and it's the right decision for us as a family, but it's taken me a while to make peace with the decision. I'm degree educated and professional qualified in a pretty male dominated field and I feel guilty for not making the most of the opportunities that feminists past have fought for. Kind of like I'm letting the side down. The way I'm dealing with it is, even though on the face of it we are perpetuating the stereotypical male/female roles, by trying to make sure our household does not place more value on DH's role as the income earner over mine as the primary caregiver. It's really really hard in practice though! If as a society we achieved this then maybe we could stop beating ourselves and each other up about whether it's unfeminist to be a SAHM.