Why do men use prostitutes?

Dervel Well of course it is revealing - if men really just hated women and that's the reason then the rate of violence towards female prostitutes would be significantly higher.

moomoos You did say it before. Doesn't make it any more true if you repeat it. And yes, in that moment when they touch them, the men don't see the woman being exploited, they see her how she wants them to see her. And that is not in a bad way. And what about men using male prostitutes? Is that a male on male problem?

Men are in fact usually more violent towards other men and we're socialised to respond to stress with aggression, I'm not sure of the exact breakdown of violence towards male/female prostitues, but it does happen. I recall a case where Boy George chained up a male escort to a radiator and abused him so it does happen.

I'm not convinced any difference is particularly revealing though.

Firstly, please don't try to on any level compare 'women' to 'animals'.

Secondly, this subject isn't about the entire UK population buying cheap goods, that may or may not be made in other countries in sweat shops, by people we don't see, hear and touch.

As I said before, men using prostitutes is a male on female problem.'

I don't think anyone is disputing that...

Ok MrGHardy it is a very simple, but terribly viscous cycle. Society objectifies women in two major but related ways, as sex objects and as mothers. Both forms of objectification confers an intrinsic value on women (as objects). Men go on to resent the intrinsic value women as objects possess, leading them to hate them (misogyny).

Women resent being objects as objects have no agency or at least less agency relative to men, men resent the intrinsic object value of women as although men have more agency if they fail to make anything of themselves that agency is viewed as unfair responsibility on males that women are free from. Not comprehending a gilded cage is still a cage.

Shuffle in race, class and economics to obsfucate these fundamental imbalances. Throw in a few high flying women to make it look like you've solved the problem when you haven't, and we're now arguing haven't we got there? Women have the vote, Thatcher, May yadda yadda.

Prostitution only exists thanks to the relative wealth inequality between men and women. Fewer women would do it if they had more agency, but we all collude to keep women down thus ensuring a continual supply of desperate women, and if the native women start doing comparably better we can ship more in from abroad thanks to globalism.

Porn is inextricably linked to prostitution because both involve the sexual exploitation of women, by men for money.

moomoos do humans hate animals? Do they hate people in Asia producing their cheap products? Since when does the dictionary say hate means disrespect and indifference?

In addition, it would be interesting and telling for this debate to see the figures of homosexual men and gay male prostitutes. Of course the rate will be lower as as a guy wanting to fuck another guy it will be easier to hook up without paying than a guy trying to hook up with a girl, but if you could find a way to account for this. And the relative danger of working as a gay male prostitute and a female prostitute would be very telling. Of course if they live a much safer life than female ones, then I would concede that you are right, but I don't think they do, in which case you wouldn't be right. From a quick google it is supposedly "somewhat lower" level of violence, which if you factor in that men may be less able to be violent towards other males than to females, could mean there is no significant difference between potential for violence towards female and male prostitutes. So I ask you again, is it because humans, and in particular men, are just terrible in general, or do you maintain it's because "men hate women"?

I still don't know what point you're making. Are you saying that some men are worse than others? Because I agree with that. NAMALT and all that.

I don't know about "tells them to" but I suppose it's a phrase one can use, yes. In particular porn has an impact here but I think that is another can of worms that we don't need to open here.

But is that because every single John is dangerous or because some are dangerous and repeat offenders? Not every one of them tries strangling their prostitute a bit, gets a kick and starts going around choking and beating them, killing them.

Have you seen that one movie (based on a true story), where the guy drives a truck and there's two Mexican girls in the back and he is driving them to be prostituted off. At first he was indifferent and only because he fell in love with the girl did he do something. In hindsight, he looks fantastic, having created a women's shelter too, but if you really just coldly analyze it, he was gonna just do nothing, which is what humans always do. That is why those that do do, are often remembered as heroes.

Mrghardy I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here. So men don't use prostitutes because they hate women. They use them because they have no respect, care less about women and see them as subhuman.

What's the difference then really?

We're cross posting a lot today Datun!

Lots of men go to prostitutes so they can do things to them that real women would not put up with

I've seen this belief a lot and it's always really jarring to me that people honestly don't see that what this is saying is that the person saying it doesn't regard prostituted women as real

In that case the prostitutes weren't 'real', not women as a whole.

Jesus. Prostitutes are women. They are no different, at all, from any other woman.

I'm not sure what point you're making, to be honest. Are you saying men degrade women because society tells them to?

Because that's not something I would disagree with.

Men's socialisation has got a massive amount to do with their attitudes to women.

And in terms of equating hate with an active desire to hurt, being a prostitute is the most dangerous job a woman can do. What other jobs do you know that require a panic button?

... or why many women have every reason to believe that men hate them. Because they're not 'real'.

In that case the prostitutes weren't 'real', not women as a whole.

Anyway, my point is hate suggests an active desire to see them hurt.

What I am saying it's more of a disrespect/apathy towards them (which imo stems from society, I mean just look at how women are portrayed, even female heroines like, well I don't know what you think about her but my FB feed from old female class mates sure idolizes her, Beyonce utilize "sex sells" up) which results in the same kind of indifference and blinding out of the plight suffered by them as we have towards other things in our life that I mentioned above.

Otherwise the answer to the survey should have been something like "because they get off on degrading women" (and inb4 some do, well so what, you're trying to combat stereotyping women into sex objects by stereotyping men and it's akin to arguing "why did people vote Brexit - because they're stupid"). But no, the answer was "because they can" and why do people buy sneakers made from tiny children's hands? Because they can.

The fact that this is usually men attempting to explain women's experience, to a woman, says everything.

Do men do this just to women or other men, too? From my experience, that is what men do, regardless of gender. Heck, I love to do it on internet forums and often you don't even know the gender of the other person (although assuming the gender avatars are 100% correct, it would even be more men than women).

Look, men pay for women because he can have whatever and whoever he wants. Lots of men go to prostitutes so they can do things to them that real women would not put up with."

... or why many women have every reason to believe that men hate them. Because they're not 'real'.

Yes Datun, mansplaining wouldn't be some random male explaining all about yachting, but it would be some random male telling me all about psychology or feminism.

And mansplaining isn't 'explaining'.

Mansplaining is a man attempting to explain something he knows little about to a person who often knows all about it, on the assumption that they don't.

So if your dad was explaining something, that he knew about, that would be fine.

If he was mansplaining, he would assume that his opinion was superior, despite evidence to the contrary. The logical extension of which is the people he is explaining it to are inferior.

The fact that this is usually men attempting to explain women's experience, to a woman, says everything.

It depends if you equate hate with less than worthless.

Men who use prostitutes absolutely know they're being exploited. The men exploit them themselves.

If you go onto the websites where men discuss the prostitutes they have used, you'd have a lot of trouble coming away from it thinking they don't hate those women.

By the way I don't believe for a second that men who buy women don't realise that the women are exploited

You disagree that prostituted women are exploited, Mr? I just want to be clear about your thinking on this.

Personally I haven't said that all men hate women. Personally I believe that across the globe, men are taught that they're entitled to sex at any cost, and that women are second class.

There certainly is a lot of contempt for what men see as a certain type of woman, I.e women who are for sale.

Dervel I suppose given that I brought it up I ought to have at least an attempt at an answer, but I do not. I would probably start by simply raising awareness, making sure that everyone knows that if you pick a random prostitute, chances are she was trafficked or exploited.

moomoos I never said they are not exploited. But I disagree. You implicitly assume males willingness to pay stems from hate whereas women don't hate men and thus don't do it. To me that does not ring true, in general.

Apologies for that, but it is a common tactic to bring up another issue to center that in favour of what is being discussed.

I think it's an emotive subject, and for a lot of women who have been at the sharp end of sexual objectification, not necessarily in the sex industry itself, I can understand them not centering men's feelings when discussion comes up.

But what you say has merit, now how do we get men to see women as people and not consumable commodities?