Why do men use prostitutes?

I actually think men think of prostitution as a group of sub humans.

There not women or people. Just there for sex.

Any one for the sex industry being legalised, you need to watch the documentary on the BBC about life on the uks only red light area, it's based in Leeds AND none of the women have much choice to sell them selves.

ALL of them are drug addicts.

The only way is to live is to rob, sell them
Selves or Seek the dismal help available to them.

Men who use prostitutes are seriously lacking in any moral or ethical standing

Way to project there Danny Boy. You can keep your grubby schoolboy musings to yourself.

It's really not about what sad men may or may not want.

It's about the fact that you are not entitled to have it.

A lot of men have zero respect for women, women are just an object for their use is that simple

I would go as far as saying that this is true for most men in a global level.

Sadly John Lennon was correct with one of his songs, that women are seen as being of no importance and are likened to chattel and positions with zero rights and respect.

This is the fundlemental energy that needs to be changed, globally.

MrGHardy wrote - "I am sorry but how is that different to any other job vesuvia? Or are you saying there literally is no other job for said woman available? I find that hard to believe. And if not, even then, it wouldn't be like she's the only unemployed."

I think you may have misunderstood the point I was trying to make, which was that I can think of common scenarios where a prostitute does not have the power, the man has the power. I don't understand the relevance of your response to my point.

Do you think every prostitute (in the world) has money and non-prostitution job prospects or access to unemployment benefit? Are you agreeing with xxHappyHippyxx, who seems to believe that a prostitute always has the power and the man paying her never has the power?

For the record, I am pro-Nordic model and I believe prostitution is not just like any other job. I believe that prostitution harms all women.

(...) we probably wouldn't even need prostitution to exist at all.

We don't need prostitution to exist.

Also, no, with no male violence, women wouldn't let men use them like they currently use prostitutes. You know, that's the point in abolishing prostitution. From a feminist point of view. We don't want all women to be prostitutes for all men.

If men weren't so fucking entitled and violent, they'd just not buy women's bodies to masturbate into. Problem solved.

MrGHardy the price of sex should be sex, ie reciprocity should be the only coin of the sexual realm. That's not said out of some sense of prudishness, it's just healthier psychologically.

The single most interesting thing you have covered is the musing over how men's attitudes towards prostitution could be changed, but apart from shrugging you shoulders and saying you don't know, you've spent way more word real estate tone policing.

You've also trumpeted on about logic and reason, yet you seem totally devoid of any skills in rhetoric. I'm afraid it's just not enough to state an idea and claim it's logical. You need to employ rhetoric to give your idea the best possible presentation.

Going back to changing men's attitudes I think a place to start is pointing out men and women's sex drives are not as wildly different as is stereotyped. My contention is if women were full and active participants in society without the fear of sexual violence and well just violence in general hanging over their heads colouring every interaction they have with men we probably wouldn't even need prostitution to exist at all.

In addition if more women weren't so stressed as to where their next meal, rent cheque or whatever was coming from, they might have more time to go out and discover their own sexual identities.

We need to unpack the language around sex, as it's not something you do to someone it's something you do with them. Consider our gay and lesbian friends if you want a hint at what sex can be like when you take some of the bullshit between men and women out of the equation. I actually think a lot of gays and lesbians have a more natural attitude towards sex than us straight people sometimes.

As I've said before Lass, they'd be crap at poker

The study in the article is interesting. It proves that we will always need the structure provided by the criminal justice system, because so many people wont regulate their own behaviour based on a common set of morals.
Morals have to be codified into rules, and there must be negative consequenses. It suggests that many people care less about doing the right thing than being seen to do the right thing.

As I've said before Lass, they'd be crap at poker.

I wonder if men (and it is almost always men), who get off on the intellectual masturbation of forensically dissecting the issue of prostitution, realise that to most women, they have the Internet version of creep stamped across their posts

I don't think they have any idea. We see it so often. And there is a style. Often the posters go to lengths to avoid being offensive ; their posts are , as they see it, well thought out and logical, models of reason, inviting theoretical debate.

The men who don't "think" are the men who are disgusting! That's the point for goodness sake.

Well Datun, if you think that that fits me, I am sorry and I am out of here. Well I am anyway to sleep, but I won't post more tomorrow.

I don't categorically see prostitutes as victims. Dervel said a few posts back that he does not identify as a feminist and does not post on here to suck up to women. I don't call myself a feminist either. One does not need to be either a woman or a feminist to think prostitution is incompatible with human dignity.

That's the thing. Many men would have sex with a woman in an instant for whatever their price is. I think I would, too, if you go high enough. And my point is what I said above, "Why do men use prostitutes?" - well some do because they want to degrade them yes, but I just don't believe it's all of them. And they take different approaches to tackle. For example, do you think the proportion of men that are bullies that use prostitutes is higher or lower than the proportion of men who are not bullies that use prostitutes? I dare say the former is higher as these are men who already display a willingness to take the dignity of others (which bullying does).

I wonder if men (and it is almost always men), who get off on the intellectual masturbation of forensically dissecting the issue of prostitution, realise that to most women, they have the Internet version of creep stamped across their posts, which women are only too familiar with, having encountered it almost all their lives.

If anyone can point me to any other alternative source where punters are talking about their experience of prostitution, I'll take a look.

Meanwhile, we have an article from a photographer, an article in the Guardian, and a website devoted to their ratings system. Which sounds like a fairly balanced cross-section to me. Over half the men in the OP's link were married or in relationships. There was no stereotypical profile, certainly none that would fit the definition 'psychopath'. Just your ordinary, common or garden creep/rapist.

"More than half admitted that they either knew or believed that a majority of women in prostitution were lured, tricked or trafficked."

"One of the most interesting findings was that many believed men would "need" to rape if they could not pay for sex on demand. One told me, "Sometimes you might rape someone: you can go to a prostitute instead."

"many others admitted that they thought the women would be feeling "disgusted", "miserable", "dirty" and "scared". Ahmed said he thought the woman might feel "relief that I'm not going to kill her".

But the punters ... well, they have to be very disgusting. No decent person would get any enjoyment out of sex they know the other person doesn't want, and wouldn't have if they weren't paid for it.

And that's not even getting into the fact that it is renting out a body, which is like organ sale, which is illegal in many countries, with good reason.

To the first part, yes, there will be many that think as you all say - "that bitch is nothing but a slut that spreads her legs for men". However, this is why I initially posted in the thread, I think there are also quite many that simply do not "think". They just see it as a business transaction. And I think the two groups have to be addressed differently.

Maybe digressing, organ sale is mostly illegal due to the a) huge black market (although funnily enough legalization and regulation would save lives) and b) the dangers. However, suppose there is a poor family in a poor country. Along comes a guy says I give you money, just give me your kidney. Now this is exploitation and morally wrong, no doubt, but by making it illegal you have prevented that poor family from getting money that may have made their life so much better. Is that worth the price of stopping some asshole being immoral? I don't know.

It's actually quite telling that you categorically view prostitutes as victims (of circumstance)
No, I categorically view users of prostitutes as scumbags who don't care for the reasons why the woman they are using has chosen to be paid for penetration

I don't categorically see prostitutes as victims. Dervel said a few posts back that he does not identify as a feminist and does not post on here to suck up to women. I don't call myself a feminist either. One does not need to be either a woman or a feminist to think prostitution is incompatible with human dignity.

Look. You don't need to convince me that prostitution is terrible. I have other questions. If you want to stick more in line with OP, fine, I am out. But don't ignore 90% of my posts and repeat the same argument, one that I even agree with.

What sort of man thinks it's preferable to pay someone who would rather not, to have sex with him? What does that say about his attitudes to women and sex?

That's the interesting question, isn't it?
I don't judge women for prostituting themselves when they need money.

But the punters ... well, they have to be very disgusting. No decent person would get any enjoyment out of sex they know the other person doesn't want, and wouldn't have if they weren't paid for it.

And that's not even getting into the fact that it is renting out a body, which is like organ sale, which is illegal in many countries, with good reason.

Then why respond in the first place Lass?

I have russie, I am aware, I am not for prostitution. However, I do think that one can have a debate about it, and as I have written above, I have some questions which no one is answering, only reverting to the same "what would you do if you would starve otherwise". Yes, you are right, I would not want to do that. So why do some women? Voluntarily? To not live on the street? Might explain why there are so many more men than women on the street as men generally don't have the option of prostitution. However, as I said, I am not talking about such cases.

Bad phrasing - I meant "the west" with that and fair point, however that applies equally to men and women these days.

Because there aren't many men who use prostitutes posting here (if any, I don't think anyone has said they do), so how can you get a good sense, other than from some vocal users on a forum that sound like psychopaths?

Prostitutes have a high risk for PTSD. A high percentage were groomed as children.
So clearly, its not just a job that people do out of choice.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2615337/

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3508959/

So would you let men have penetrative sex with you for cash? It's just a job, you'd probably make loads of money, if you did enough each day.

"In your examples of individual scenarios above, if a woman is so desperate for money she will do anything (needs food, to pay the rent, drug addiction etc) is it ethical for a man to exploit that desperation for sex?"

I am sorry but this victim scenario does not work. We do not live in a world anymore where women have no possibility of income. In fact, did you see the recent article in The Economist? For women at the same level, function and company, the gap is now only 0.8% and overall 26.8% (Germany btw only 15% as it is much less unequal than Britain meaning the gap between the low earners, more women, and higher earners, more men, is smaller. Interestingly, the gap for same function/level/company is higher in Germany which from a solely public/media based perspective seems true, Germany seems to lag Britain in terms of gender equality initiatives at the high level).

Anyway I digress, I made a hypothetical, and you changed the hypothetical. The ten million part was clearly to show, she isn't doing it to survive, but the sheer amount of money - and let's face it, there will be women who aren't prostitutes who would do it for that much money.

It's actually quite telling that you categorically view prostitutes as victims (of circumstance). Not denying that most are, I am sure that many would scoff at your opinion of them as victims. And maybe simply because you would never do something like that other than if you had to to survive, doesn't mean that all women think like you. I think we can agree that for men, many would do it. And why can't some women be more like men in this regard than most other women? I don't know, but in my opinion, that is not unreasonable at all.