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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans rights and consultation on legal gender - cold hard facts and sources please?

104 replies

mrsroboto · 23/07/2017 20:50

I've been reading with interest the various trans threads going on, in reference to this news item (I know it's been a longrunning discussion) Consultation on changing legal gender to be launched

There's been a lot of chat and theorising and I admit I had previously assumed it was the same as all the American hysteria over women with big hands using ladies' bathrooms. HOWEVER, obviously there's a lot more worrying things being implied. (I'm aware that people are worried about female-only safe spaces and medical definitions of male/female).

I'm not familiar with TRAs or their arguments so please can someone clearly answer some of my questions for me, with links to sources rather than generalising where possible? (I ask this respectfully as I know there is a lot of anger and disbelief and infighting which are making threads hard to follow, and I'd like to provide links for others - plus I tend not to believe stuff people write on the internet if there isn't a credible source - my STEM background).

  1. From the news article, it looks like they want to remove the 'gender dysphoria' requirement for the 'Gender Recognition Panel' to allow someone to be recognised as the other gender. The 'gender dysphoria' definition in the DSM-5 looks fairly 'open' in that I would have thought most trans people would easily meet (things like 'A strong desire to be of the other gender'). The new requirement would be "a simple administrative process".

What is the trans argument for not even wanting to meet the gender dysphoria diagnosis? (Please don't just answer 'misogyny' - I'm trying to understand if there's supposed to be a reason - too difficult to diagnose? Symptoms that aren't listed in the DSM?)

  1. What is the simple administrative process? Has this actually been proposed yet? (Ppl assuming one can just sign a piece of paper) Can you change back and forth regularly?
  1. is there anyone who genuinely benefits from this? Are there distinct groups of trans people, such as 'genuine' gender dysmorphia people vs men who want to access women's prisons etc? what about in-between?
  1. is there a question about lowering the age for physical transition? I'm aware of people claiming that children as young as 9 are starting to transition with drugs etc - any sources? I find this crazy.

As I said, I've read other threads with lots of good points about the implications so am familiar with a lot of the arguments but less familiar with actual facts, legislation, sources that might give an idea as to what could happen. Hoping a wise MNer or two can help but not wanting it to become a pile-on. AND apologies for not being up to speed yet.

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mrsroboto · 23/07/2017 21:14

(sorry that first paragraph was a quote from flugelpip's post.)

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mrsroboto · 23/07/2017 21:14

Catching up with some other threads, flugelpip has mentioned there is no accepted definition of trans - you can be trans without changing any aspect of your physical presentation, as far as I can see from watching activists' videos on youtube. Someone who was born male can wear a full beard and declare themselves female, whether they are wearing stereotypically female clothes or not. And that, believe it or not, I understand that as their right - I'm not interested in whether there has been surgery, or hormonal treatment, or if someone is starting on their transformation and not yet being formally treated. I am emphatically not anti-trans. I am against the naivety that the trans community insist on showing in believing that men won't abuse the privileges that they're fighting for.'

Is this the heart of it?

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venusinscorpio · 23/07/2017 21:14

I think a lot of the problem is the non binary or cross dressing types. They are the ones who don't think it should be medicalised or regulated in any way. But they are considered "trans".

mrsroboto · 23/07/2017 20:59

Slightly answering my own question by reading the Govt proposals although they are still vague:
"The current need to be assessed and diagnosed by clinicians is seen as an intrusive requirement by the trans community".

"It will aim to relieve the bureaucratic and medical burdens for those who choose to change their gender."

So the 'medicalisation' is seen as wrong by the trans community? Why?

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