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Original poster

Pelvic Exams on unconsenting anaesthetised women

113 replies

Datun · 23/07/2017 06:33

This article claims that pelvic exams are routinely being done at University hospitals in America, on unconsenting women.

They use the general consent form as permission for students studying gynaecology.

The woman in the article said she had to explicitly say before she went under anaesthetic that no pelvic exams were to be performed on her.

It's made me feel a bit ill, to be honest. But I'm wondering if this is general knowledge?

Are there any doctors/HCPs who can shed any light on whether this is routinely practised in the UK?

www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/05/10/practice-vs-privacy-on-pelvic-exams/4e9185c4-4b4c-4d6a-a132-b21b8471da58/?utm_term=.a03a65c12880

This woman (link below) is making a documentary on it to raise awareness.

fiscal.ifp.org/project.cfm/26/?inf_contact_key9471ea02833605c7aa79c134ed1ecddd30ce4046b28fb

OP posts:
teainbed · 23/07/2017 07:39

I started training in 1996 and we had to approach the patients ourselves and ask for consent. I've no idea what happened prior to that but it was certainly very tightly controlled when I was a student.

NotLachsAgainMother · 23/07/2017 07:39

I believe it used to happen in Australia too, I seem to remember a big scandal in the 90s.

It says so much about how we view women's bodies.

Original poster
Datun · 23/07/2017 07:34

eurochick

Apparently, it occurs during ops unrelated to gynaecological conditions.

OP posts:
Original poster
Datun · 23/07/2017 07:31

SoPassRemarkable

They can't tell the student if they're being too rough, etc.

Well exactly.

The article says that if even half the unconsenting women consented, that would be enough to help students.

Apparently a student needs at least 100 exams before they are competent.

So if we don't do that routinely here, how do they learn?

OP posts:
SoPassRemarkable · 23/07/2017 07:29

Plus the women might feel under pressure to agree to it. They get the med students to ask themselves which I think is wrong.

I'm a midwife and the students are always keen to come and see babies being born. I've had students on the ward come and say "oh I'm just going to ask the woman in room 5 if I can go in and watch". And I tell them they won't be asking. I will go in and ask the woman myself and let the student know what they decide. I make it clear to the woman they can say no. I think a woman will find it easier to say no to me than to the person who wants it.

SoPassRemarkable · 23/07/2017 07:26

Not practised without asking before here. I have seen it happen but the woman was always asked prior to surgery.

However I do still totally disagree with it. Part of , big part, of becoming a doctor is that bedside manner, dealing with possibly awkward conversations, putting people at ease. I don't see the benefit in doing an exam on an unconscious woman. They can't tell the student if they're being too rough, etc.

RainbowInACloud · 23/07/2017 07:25

Sorry that should have said 'when I did something that wasn't clinically needed'

RainbowInACloud · 23/07/2017 07:24

I'm a doctor and in all my training I never saw this happening! It is totally sexual assault.
When I was qualified and assisting in theatre I might have had to support internal organs etc. If needed during the operation but I can't think of a time when I didn't do something that wasn't clinically needed.
My husband is an anaesthetist and works in theatres and has never seen this either.

Original poster
Datun · 23/07/2017 07:20

I don't see how it can't be considered sexual assault.

The doctors said it's easier for the students to practice on someone who is unconscious because they are fully relaxed.

And that if there are four of five students there, they all have to have a go, because they can't leave one of them out.

The language is really getting to me. It's dehumanising.

Breast exams also.

OP posts:
Batteriesallgone · 23/07/2017 07:07

I know this used to be done there was a MN thread on it before, some women shared their stories.

Didn't realise it was still happening

eurochick · 23/07/2017 07:06

I'd heard of this 20 years ago and explicitly said no students when I went for a gynae procedure under GA. the thought repulsed me.

OP posts: