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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

In a gender neutral future Utopia

92 replies

tsonlyme · 19/07/2017 21:04

...would men and women behave in a similar manner?

If we abolished the social construct of gender stereotyping and children were raised with no gender bias in any area would men and women be indistinguishable from each other in their behaviour? Is behaviour nature or nurture? Is its root in socialisation or sex specific hormones/physiology?

Or is this an impossible question to answer unless it happens?

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Kursk · 19/07/2017 21:46

......play a part too

Kursk · 19/07/2017 21:46

Yes a wolf pack is lead by a couple, forgot about that.

I am not talking about pack leaders, just general traits males generally tend to be nomadic.

I am sure that testosterone and estrogen

thatstoast · 19/07/2017 21:42

There's a few more species than that, I think. Lions, for example.

AssassinatedBeauty · 19/07/2017 21:42

"The male and female of every species shared similar traits." Every species? Of mammals, fish, reptiles, amphibians, birds, insects and so on?

VestalVirgin · 19/07/2017 21:40

Um, no, Kursk, females are much LESS likely to go looking for mates than the males are.

The leader of any given group of herbivores is most likely to be female, wolf packs are led by couples.

The only thing that male animals do more often than female animals is fighting against animals of their own species.

tsonlyme · 19/07/2017 21:40

Regrouted- my question exactly! I don't know.

VestalVirgin - crikey. Gender as an evolutionary concept. Now there's something to stew my brain about, thank you!

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Kursk · 19/07/2017 21:37

squishysquirmy

Why not? It's certainly true for bears, wolves, cows, chickens, sheep, monkeys off the top of my head

VestalVirgin · 19/07/2017 21:36

Male violence seems to be genetic to some extent.

But we will never find out how exactly things are, as a future wherein boys are not socialized to be violent can only emerge if we select men for not being violent and thereby steer evolution to men who do not want to socialize their sons to be violent.

A culture cannot exist in complete opposition to the nature of the people living in it. At least not in a good way - it is very unlikely that a dictator will ever think of enforcing the abolition of gender and the equality of the sexes against the resistance of the general population.

squishysquirmy · 19/07/2017 21:33

"The male and female of every species shared similar traits.

Male= aggression, claiming territory pack leader etc

Female= looking for a mate, caring etc"

That's not true.

squishysquirmy · 19/07/2017 21:30

I think that would be the only way to find out for sure how much of the differences are due to nature, and how much are due to nurture. So it is impossible to say until it happens!

My hunch is that there are some differences, but that the differences between individuals of both sexes are more significant than the differences between the sexes overall.

regrouted · 19/07/2017 21:30

What do you mean by behaviour?

Are you suggesting that 1. women are inherently feminine and then 2. these inherently feminine behaviours/traits say of meekness, forbearing, submission, quietness, compassion, mercy, grace (ad infinitum from whatever Romantic poet takes your fancy) somehow are controlled by oestrogen or by having a uterus?

Kursk · 19/07/2017 21:29

The male and female of every species shared similar traits.

Male= aggression, claiming territory pack leader etc

Female= looking for a mate, caring etc

Kursk · 19/07/2017 21:26

AssassinatedBeauty

Agreed there is no physical difference between a male and female brain, I am thinking more of the traits.

I don't believe that socialization makes women caring, and men violent. I believe these traits are deep rooted primeval things we share with the other animals.

tsonlyme · 19/07/2017 21:21

But Kursk - doesn't that reinforce the debunked theory of male and female brains?

By male behaviour I mean aggression, a belief that things should go their way, shouting loudest, entitlement etc.

Female behaviour - people pleasing, caring, acquiescence.

Are thes behaviours we learn through socialisation or are they innate?

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AssassinatedBeauty · 19/07/2017 21:19

kursk, brains are currently indistinguishable. It's not possible to certainly identify whether a brain is male or female by examining it, if you take the overall size out of the equation. There's no such thing as a male or female brain. There's just brains with a variety of features, some of which might be slightly more common in women than men, or vice versa.

AssassinatedBeauty · 19/07/2017 21:14

I'm not sure what you mean by behave/behaviour?

Anyway, the differences that are often talked up between men and women are not actually all that much even now, with our current levels of sex based stereotyping/socialisation. (Have you read Delusions of Gender?) So I can imagine that if there was a lot less of it, then the supposed differences between men and women would disappear altogether.

Kursk · 19/07/2017 21:09

No I think that there is a primeval differentiation between a male and a female brain, They will never become indistinguishable.