Jeremy Corbyn speaks about trans rights

Womenhavenotgotpenises will be my next nn.

I am so disappointed in Jeremy Corbyn over this, I think it's ill thought through, if at all and not a little virtue signalling.
You can't say anything even vaguely gender critical anywhere now, the Labour forums attack at the merest hint, no discussion, nothing.
Fucking Brave New World.

Oh God, yes, Jazz Jennings is tragic but what is more so is that his story is just a precursor to a generation of children who will have no functional genitalia, no sex life and quite probably an inability to form functioning adult relationships due to potential personality disorders brought about from the complex trauma they are experiencing.

Corbyn's bandwagoning, virtue signaling bullshit is so dangerous (and I am reasonably affiliated with his politics).

Apparently on a forum I'm a 'misandrist' for suggesting to a male that he should have sorted out his contraception if he didn't want a child. From the females on that forum. His excuse was he believed the women (yes, twice this happened), when they said they were on contraception. They were trapping him into unwanted parenthood and untrustworthy. He gets to preen. And is soothed.

I give up.

And not enough penile material to create a neovagina.

If they use his colon to find a way around it, he has no libido anyway, so he will be able to have sex, after a fashion, but he won't want it.

And he's permanently sterile.

*BelligerentGardenPixies

I do hope so. I was thinking about Jazz Jennings. The face of a girl, the body of a woman produced by artificial hormones, the genitalia of a prepubescent boy, no libido, loss of sexual function.

And Jeremy Corbyn, in his ignorance and arrogance, is promoting it.

I do think there is a healthy strata of dissenting voices, that are putting reasonably cogent arguments forward on the Facebook thread - moreso than you would have seen a year ago, I think.

I am on the Facebook thread and although one particular MRA blocked me or has deleted the thread ensuing from his original comment, it seems that most other comments are still standing. The threads don't show all comments (you can change the settings to see all comments) and they also don't keep them in chronological order which gets confusing when people are responding to other comments and they get jumbled.

Rogue - I'm raging that you have been banned! There are plenty of blokes on there making derisory/transphobic comments, what's the betting they don't get banned?

Bring it on. It's the only way they'll see the reality of how misogynistic a movement it is.

Lottapianos

I've lost count of the number of women who call other women transphobic, and then go on to loftily say we should all be inclusive, treat transwomen with respect and allow them in our spaces, and support them in feminism, adding but I'm not sure lesbians should be actually criticised for not wanting to sleep with them.

Only to then get piled on by transactivists calling them transphobic bitches, cissexist hate mongers, causing literal violence to transwomen everywhere.

It's a turning point for many lib fems, who had previously been staunch trans allies.

Look what's happening to Laci Green, as an example.

'Do you agree that lesbians should sleep with women with penises?'

A great example of the utter eye-popping bonkersness of this whole issue!

ArcheryAnnie

I agree it does no good to be complacent. Owen Jones is a twit, steeped in male privilege, though.

But I would like to see someone who is not a member of the LGBT community stand up and say lesbians should sleep with transwomen. Because by that token they are erasing any sexual orientation whatsoever in one fell swoop. Both homosexual and heterosexual.

If lesbians should sleep with transwomen then gay men should sleep with transmen. And straight men should sleep with transwomen, straight women with transmen.

I honestly can't possibly understand how the LGBT community can, on the one hand, say transwomen are women and homosexuality doesn't exist, whilst at the same time representing homosexuals!

No one on the planet thinks that your sex is determined by your feelings when it comes to actually having sex. So how can anyone agree with that premise when it comes to other dealings?

Even transpeople don't believe it. Otherwise transwomen would sleep with each other instead of targeting lesbians. But they don't want lady dick anymore than lesbians do.

ArcheryAnnie

I agree it does no good to be complacent. Owen Jones is a twit, steeped in male privilege, though.

But I would like to see someone who is not a member of the LGBT community stand up and say lesbians should sleep with transwomen. Because by that token they are erasing any sexual orientation whatsoever in one fell swoop. Both homosexual and heterosexual.

If lesbians should sleep with transwomen then gay men should sleep with transmen. And straight men should sleep with transwomen, straight women with transmen.

I honestly can't possibly understand how the LGBT community can, on the one hand, say transwomen are women and homosexuality doesn't exist, whilst at the same time representing homosexuals!

No one on the planet thinks that your sex is determined by your feelings when it comes to actually having sex. So how can anyone agree with that premise when it comes to other dealings?

Even transpeople don't believe it. Otherwise transwomen would sleep with each other instead of targeting lesbians. But they don't want lady dick anymore than lesbians do.

This must be about Labour needing the youth vote.

Partly but it doesn't surprise me from Corbyn. My impression of him has never been of someone who's particularly interested in feminism or women's rights and would probably sacrifice them on this without a second thought. It's another reason the general worship of him grates on me a little.

Labour have lost my vote!!

Datun I hope you're right and that the tide may still turn.

This must be about Labour needing the youth vote.

That's very true Datun and I'd definitely like to try going into it like that. I have a couple of close friends who agree with me/most on here regarding this and another who is willing to discuss it and see these points, who'd previously been staunchly along the TRA line. The way I broached it with her was discomfort at anyone who "identifies as a woman" being allowed in women's spaces. I'd really like to go into this more with others, particularly from the point of view you described - the whole ridiculous and regressive notion of a "lady brain" and the pushing girls towards stereotypical roles it endorses, which all this does. It could be effective if I'm able to as the people I'm thinking of are unsurprisingly completely against all this, going to a girls' school which also completely disproves it.

I really want to go down this route and see how they react. It also worries me as girls from younger years also attend the Feminist Society at my school, where the "committee" are very much not keen on any talk against the "trans women are women" line. I'm not sure I'm articulating this too well as though it obviously doesn't dominate everything, it's difficult to challenge so I tend to just discuss it with my friends who are of the same mindset and gently with a couple of others, including a couple of boys I know who can see the issues once explained.

You'd think so, Datun, but in the current climate Owen Jones can cry homophobia when women ask him if, as a gay man, he'd be really into going down on a trans man who has a vagina. "But I'm a gay man!11111!!! Homophobia!!!!"

Because you can tell lesbians who they should share their bodies with and it's not an issue, but god forbid you tell a man the same thing.

Tiny ray of sunshine: one of the MPs who was on the Women and Equalities Committee before the election, Gavin Shuker, reponded positively on twitter to Helen Lewis' piece.

(He has, naturally, been attacked for it, but not a fraction as much as if he'd been an icky cis woman.)

I would also like to see any political leader, pundit, speaker, etc, who agrees that transwomen are women then go on to agree that, in which case, lesbians need to include them in their dating pool.

I can't imagine anyone who wants to hold onto their job agreeing to such a thing.

And at the first hint of the dissent, they will get lambasted by the trans community. All it takes is that one question.

Do you agree that lesbians should sleep with women with penises?

It's the catch 22 of all questions.

nolove

Maybe try a different tack. One's choice of words can sometimes make a difference.

So a transwoman might say I am a woman inside, this is my identity and it is valid and why wouldn't you respect it? Which might sound reasonable to some.

Except it's exactly the same as claiming women have a lady brain.

But I should imagine there are quite a few people who could accept the first way of describing it, but not the second.

The same way that people think the very mention of the word 'patriarchy' equals rabid feminazi, but will then, completely illogically, agree that we live in a 'chauvinist' world.

The very same people who despair of the blue aisle and pink aisle in Toys "R" Us, will then agree that a transwoman saying because they 'feel' like a woman, they must be one.

Come at your argument from the point of view of lady brain, the pinkification of girls and the underpinning of stereotypes which say because a man feels womanly and wears a dress it it automatically means he's a woman.

Pink News have been totally trans-jacked. See the addendum to yesterday's article -

"• This article was amended on 19 July 2017 to include the information that the reception was hosted by Pink News."

No doubt, then, as to where the push is coming from.

My fear on this subject is views of young people (who are engaged in this kind of thing). Though I can only speak for what I've seen, it appears to me a worrying number (including a worrying number of young feminists) have opinions along the lines of Corbyn's. It's frustrating to me as I feel many don't even allow themselves to question it if that makes sense; it's the "non bigoted" view so to think otherwise or even debate it is "transphobic". The other worry with this is that others who see it for what it is, or did do, remain silent or decide they must have been wrong (and need to check their cis privilege) due to lack of debate and very vocal/aggressive voices on social media shouting about "TERFs".

MagicalRealist

The first comment I read was that they were disappointed to see so many transphobic comments. So I'm assuming they have deleted some.

I completely agree that many of the comments are disheartening. But there is more dissent than there would have been this time last year.

Many mainstream media articles online disable the comments section. There is no other reason than to quash opposing views.

I totally understand that horrible feeling you get when you read them. But don't lose heart.

I believe this is a process. And on the feminist boards on mumsnet we have gone through it and come out the other side. We just have to let the rest of the world catch up.

Datun I thought the exact opposite, that there is such an avalanche of pro trans comments that it's impossible to fight against. It's soul destroying, I feel physically ill seeing it. And bitterly disappointed in Jeremy Corbyn.