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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dr Who

65 replies

ISaySteadyOn · 17/07/2017 19:48

So, is anyone besides me pleased that the new doctor is a woman?

And also, predictable response from dudebros.

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fuzzywuzzy · 27/07/2017 00:44

Rose didn't die, she was just sealed off in an alternate universe and could no longer travel in time with the doctor as he couldn't get to that world.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 27/07/2017 00:41

Regarding Bill, I thought that she'd be off around the universe on her own now with her watery friend? Rather than having to follow the Doctor?

I thought so - she is dead but not in a proper dead and buried way. Bit like Clara who is "dead but still waltzing around in a Tardis with Ashildir and not dead as long as she doesn't come back to the point in time she died" dead.

Is Capaldi the only Doctor who has managed to kill 2 of his companions? Or is Rose also dead but not really dead? Matt Smith lost Amy and Rory but they were in their 80s.

Dervel · 26/07/2017 20:08

The criticism is whatever you choose to make it. It's a subjective preference. It's as valid to bemoan the lack of non-violent male role models in general as it is to mourn the loss of one specific character in popular culture. Although having the new Doctor as a woman won't magically erase the previous episodes!

Like I said I'm broadly in favour of the casting choice, good science fiction is littered with decent female heroes, from Princess Leia, Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor and now a female Doctor Who.

AssassinatedBeauty · 26/07/2017 16:22

Surely the criticism should be about the lack of pacifist role models, rather than specifically criticising the new Doctor Who actor solely on the grounds of being female? And the point about the lack of positive pacifist role models for boys could be made at any time, as much as you like. No need to wait until one specific role happens to change sex.

Regarding Bill, I thought that she'd be off around the universe on her own now with her watery friend? Rather than having to follow the Doctor?

Dervel · 26/07/2017 15:28

I can if I squint a bit think I can see Davidson's point, if only from the perspective of male violence. It's true 99.999% of protagonists and heroes are male, but The Doctor stands out as something of a pacifist who almost always eschews weaponry and physical violence (barring a brief flirtation with Venusian Judo or some such in the Pertwee era).

In that context I think role models like the doctor are incredibly important for little boys. I'm not saying we shouldn't not have a female doctor, simply that I don't think everyone who is critical of a female Doctor is an automatic misogynist.

Broadly speaking the reaction seems favorable most of my fellow fans seem exited and are looking forward to a woman in the role, and whilst I think there are some people who are struggling with it they are very much in the minority.

My only personal reservation about all this is with the current companion who happens to be a lesbian. Is this going to result in a not so subtle dig at the perceived cotton ceiling. Is Bill going to now suddenly have to be attracted to a person she has known as a mentor figure and most importantly as a male the whole time?

I almost always prefer the companions who don't end up mooning over the Doctor so I actually really liked Bill. I'll be just a little bit sad if that dynamic changes now the Doctor is now a hot young blonde woman.

AssassinatedBeauty · 25/07/2017 13:59

I find incredulous and sad that Peter Davidson can't manage to consider the huge and vast array of male role models for boys. And then not get too worked up when one of them (one!) becomes female. He might have a point when 95% of all mainstream characters are female and have been for decades. Then he might be able to complain legitimately.

ThymeLordRegenerates2Spartacus · 25/07/2017 13:47

I see Peter Davidson has now come out and said that he thinks it is a shame that Dr Who is now a woman, because it takes away the male role model for young boys. I mean FFS, really?!

lmer · 25/07/2017 08:26

It's not really a surprise- the dr was always going to be either a woman or a man of colour- if they wanted to be really inclusive a woman of colour but unfortunately they aren't quite there so have gone with your stereotypical "safe" choice of a blonde white woman which is a win, but next time they could do better!

coldcanary · 21/07/2017 19:30

Shes not an actor I'm familiar with, personally as a fan I'll watch and support whoever is daft enough to take the role and the accompanying madness on but I can't help but wish the first female Doctor was someone more famous. Olivia Coleman would have been brilliant and Shirley Henderson is an inspired idea!
I'll watch with interest and hope for decent writing this season.
And watch Broadchurch before Christmas..

RhinestoneCowgirl · 21/07/2017 19:22

I really enjoyed Starbuck in Battlestar Galactica remake (although hadn't seen the original)

Sci-Fi tends to be the thing that DH and I watch together, we love Dr Who. Glad we finally have a female Dr

ArcheryAnnie · 21/07/2017 19:17

We absolutely love Capaldi but are quite excited by Jodie Whittaker taking over. I haven't seen her in anything at all, but she has the immeasurable benefit of not being Kris Marshall, who had been rumoured to be the next Doctor.

(Nothing against Kris Marshall, except he is not and will never be a Doctor.)

The "can Time Lords be women?" thing is way past established. Not just Missy, but we've had at least one Time Lord regenerate before our eyes in recent seasons from a white man to a black woman. Even as far back as Sarah Jane Adventures, it was established in-show that Time Lords could regenerate into bodies that were very different from their current ones.

lessworriedaboutthecat · 21/07/2017 10:44

I do hope they left tweeky alone

DameDeDoubtance · 20/07/2017 21:14

God I miss Battlestar, may be time for a re watch...

Dervel · 20/07/2017 21:10

The recent Ghostbusters had a bit of a dull final third with an over reliance on cgi, but it's a similar problem I find in almost every Marvel movie and most modern blockbusters. The 4 main actresses were solid and funny with good chemistry.

This gender flip with the Doctor has happened before in Sci-Fi, we saw Starbuck cast as a woman in the battlestar galactica series, and that worked out brilliantly. Well written and well acted with flaws, depth and heroism.

People pitched a fit about that as well, but battlestar galactica is still regarded as some very good sci-fi. No reason at all it can't be the same with Doctor who.

DameDeDoubtance · 20/07/2017 16:34

The new Ghostbusters is great and I am a huge fan of the original cast.

The original cast all make cameo appearances too.

lessworriedaboutthecat · 20/07/2017 10:01

I don't like remakes by and large to me it just smacks of lack of creativity and greed. Why not make something new. Hopefully Jodie Whittaker will be a good Doctor Who. The preview didn't fill me with great confidence. It might have been better to start an episode with Peter Capaldi and then end it regenerating to Jodie Whittaker.

I'll check out the remake of Ghostbusters Rufus.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 20/07/2017 09:52

less

I realiy enjoyed the remake, very funny and great actors

And i love the original...classic

AssassinatedBeauty · 20/07/2017 09:51

There was a need for a new actor for Dr Who though, as Capaldi was leaving. There is scope in the format for anyone to play the Doctor, so why not consider actors who aren't white men for the role this time?

Remakes of older films happen all the time, why not consider using different types of actors if it's not relevant to the plot? I don't think the Ghostbusters film was an attempt to empower women, I think they wanted to make money like everyone else.

lessworriedaboutthecat · 20/07/2017 09:45

I haven't seen the all female remake of Ghostbusters so it may be great. I just have fond memories of the original from when I was a kid.

lessworriedaboutthecat · 20/07/2017 09:43

I really like Nadiya too, I was being a bit facetious, I really enjoyed her programme when she went to Bangladesh and I'm looking forward to the new programme where she travels around Britain sampling regional cuisine.

I'm just unsure about the whole remaking or altering programmes purely for reasons of political correctness unless there's something blatantly offensive like golliwogs in Noddy. To my mind for example the all female remake of Ghostbusters isn't empowering its just lazy film making. Why not have a new idea. Surely there are enough talented female writers that someone could try and write something new and the BBC could take a chance on it.

I will continue watching Doctor Who and I wish Jodie Whittaker all the best.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 19/07/2017 22:12

but did this come up so much when past doctors were revealed?

Yes. Every reveal since Ecclestone, the issues raised have been: why isn't it a woman? Why isn't is a non-white actor?
So yes.

DameDeDoubtance · 19/07/2017 19:16

So true squishy, it's never quite our turn is it.

IStoleThisUsername · 19/07/2017 18:34

I agree with squishy.

To please everyone the Doctor should be a transitioned pregnant gay hijab wearing Muslim POC with a visible disability.

squishysquirmy · 19/07/2017 18:19

I think Nadiya is great, and comes across as very warm and charismatic on both TV and radio, but she's not an actress!
I agree that a non-white doctor would be good, but did this come up so much when past doctors were revealed? (maybe it did and I didn't notice so much). Because I feel like whenever a woman/women break any barrier at the moment, people start objecting because she isn't black/gay/disabled/working class/minority religion. And I do think that all forms of equality are important, but I feel like men are just allowed to crack on at being men, even if they are white. Whereas women are somehow expected to not only bear the weight of all feminism on their shoulders (and many don't want to), but must also champion all other causes as well. Not sure if I'm articulating that properly, its just something that's been bothering me more and more.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 19/07/2017 18:15

I agree they could have considered a person of colour but , no I would not want a woman wearing a hijab in such a mainstream, iconic role.