Teen Vogue article

NoLoveofMine
Just for balance, heres an article about a study on girls and anal sex.

''A study on why teenage heterosexual couples may engage in anal sex has revealed a climate of coercion, with consent and mutuality not always a priority for the boys who are trying to persuade girls into having it.''

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/women-being-coerced-into-having-sex-researchers-say-with-persuasion-normalised-9671395.html

Totally agree with addressing the word normal. Normal as in the norm and normal as in, not the opposite to abnormal.

Anal sex isn't abnormal.

Neither is it the norm.

Sorry about the rose thing .

But I have read other articles addressed to youth and sex in general and this porn led thing consistently comes up.

It definately doesn't highlight the risks enough.

"Condoms are also nonnegotiable. There is no risk of pregnancy during anal sex, but STIs are widespread and abundant. Protect yourself and practice safe sex every single time."

Well yes but you can say the same for vaginal sex, the difference is anal sex is the riskiest type of sex for STDs for the receiver. It's worth noting that you are 17 times more likely to get HIV from anal sex than from vaginal sex. I presume that this is similar for some other STDs as the vagina is pretty awesome at keeping nasty shit out of our blood stream.

It isn't about my own opinion on anal sex. It's the underlying assumption that it is common for 13yr olds to be having sex regularly enough that they are likely to be also trying anal.

When it's viewed in the light of other media aimed at that age, where there are many articles with information on common issues, it implies anal is normal too.

Eg from preteen age media is about how it is normal to develop at a different rate to your friends, normal to feel confused about your changing body, normal to have boobs that have a slight size difference, normal to be attracted to others as more than friends, normal to have sexual feelings and so on. You then do an article on anal and the natural assumption is that it also falls into the category of normal for an early teen. Rather than explicitly stating it is not an expected or common part of life for a teen.

Sorry Serendipity I misread one of your posts and thought you had mentioned enjoying it - I agree that personal preferences shouldn't come into this discussion, but was following up on what I mistakenly thought was your introduction of the subject.

I think we need to make a distinction between "normal" in the statistical sense of what the norm is, and "normal" in the moral sense. There's nothing wrong with anal sex if that's what floats your (generic "your") boat. It is perfectly normal in the moral sense as part of the varied range of human sexual activity which when engaged in safely and consensually is no-one else's business.

Then there's normal in the statistical sense - and I object to articles which try to portray niche activities as something everyone should try. That's adding to the pressure (already there from pornography) to do stuff which it is fine not to want to do.

Women are not non prostate owners, we are not orifices for the penis, we are not vessels for male pleasure. We need an erotic revolution to reclaim sex from grubby pornographers and damaged young men.

Yep again

sue

I haven't been googling it on purpose

serandipity

I agree , although i feel the article wasn't particularly informative as datun said i would be much happier if it had said the dangers, said that most girls dont like it and thats fine ( been telling potentially gay ds that lots of gay men dont have anal sex and that its ok not to want it as much as its ok to want to a least have a go to see if its for you) and aimed it at older teens

I just think that in an adult that experimentation between consenting adults (ideally in a relationship...i know that makes me old fashioned. Im not talking years!) is fine and dandy

But anal or bdsm etc shouldn't be the first thing you do with a lad, be you male or female

And i know no one is saying that...but i feel thats the way our society is going

I also think the article unnecessarily promotes anal sex.
By printing it in a mainstream magazine, they knew it would be controversial. My worry is that the backlash will be centred around pearl clutching eg parents who don't want their dc knowing about sex, religious objections, homophobia, etc. This could make it even more difficult for young girls to refuse consent to anal, as they will be accused of pandering to conservative morals.
Instead, I'd like to see the backlash focused on female pleasure. The article, and in particular the diagrams, erase any ideas of positive female sexuality. I'm really mad about that. Women are not non prostate owners, we are not orifices for the penis, we are not vessels for male pleasure. We need an erotic revolution to reclaim sex from grubby pornographers and damaged young men.

Although i wish that rose thing hadn't been mentioned

Lol, the internet can be a grim grim place... one reason why an accessible article on anal sex isn't a bad idea for teens, to save them from googling 'anal sex'!

Me too rufus.

generally there needs to be a big push to educate ALL teens on real sex, real bodies, real pleasure and real consent

Yep

Agree with datun

Although i wish that rose thing hadn't been mentioned

I was living in extremely happy ignorance

I'm confused because the article seems to focus on receiving a dick up the arse, and it focuses on anal pleasure (mainly for those smart enough to have invested in a prostate gland at birth).

I thought many boys wanted anal (with girls) because of penile stimulation?

Some cross-posting going on here - also M0stly you're making some assumptions about firstly my personal experience with anal sex (that I haven't stated, and posters' personal sexual practices shouldn't be brought into this I feel) and secondly that people who do on occasion enjoy anal play would not need to feel empowered to refuse on other occasions! Surely everyone should be empowered to decline any sexual activity they wish to, at any time for whatever reason.

Pressure on teen girls to conform to porn standards go way beyond anal sex - pubic waxing, body types, appearance of genitalia, faking orgasms, lack of focus on the clitoris or genuine female pleasure, finding licking their own fingers a turn on (wtf?), being ejaculated upon, performing with toys for voyeurs, group sex...generally there needs to be a big push to educate ALL teens on real sex, real bodies, real pleasure and real consent.

I just don't read this article as being incompatible with what seem like our overwhelmingly shared views on the subject.

I don't think that article pressures girls into having anal sex. Honestly, I have a bigger issue with the way teen magazines for girls in general are geared up around how they look and the need to find a relationship over being great at hobbies, interested in world affairs, succeeding at school/uni than I do a fairly reasonable article that gives information about a sex act.

Someone's mentioned that they find it disturbing this information needs to be given to teens, I totally agree.

But teens have access to a huge amount more information and sexual content now. We have to cover the law on sexting and issues surrounding explicit and suggestive pictures from the start of secondary now because we are dealing with issues linked to it. Leaving it until y10/11 is actually too late (worryingly).

M0stlyBowlingHedgehog

Even that one statistic would have changed the entire article.

75% of girls don't want this.

Job done.

Differences of opinion are going arise, I believe, largely on the basis of whether you personally like anal or not.

But statistically girls do not. Statistically boys do. Porn has given them the expectation that they are entitled to it.

I don't see how anyone can argue that, given those statistics, an article on anal sex should be weighted heavily in favour of that 75%.

And I agree it's great to debate this without a bunfight!

What I'm saying is you can do both. You can inform and establish boundaries.

This article made a superficial nod towards boundaries whilst making anal sex to be routine.

Boundaries first. As something, good, positive, empowering.

It should be promoted as the default answer to will you do anal?

Because who does that harm?

If a girl wants do, she absolutely will!

The two viewpoints do not carry the same weight.

Serendipity - yes, as I said up thread, about 25% of the women in the BMJ survey did enjoy anal. The overwhelming majority, 75%, did not.

This is an article aimed at 13 year olds. It's not "how to do something (which incidentally is illegal at your age) safely", it's about persuading them it's a normal, integral part of sex. Against a social context (quite different incidentally from my youth - I'm an old gimmer in her fifties) in which men are pressurising women into anal sex they don't want and don't enjoy.

The balance of the article is all wrong. Yes, teenagers are sexually curious. But 13 year old girls need above all reassurance. Reassurance that their bodies are their own and they get to say what does or does not happen to them. Reassurance that it's okay to be uncertain, it's okay to say no. Reassurance that their sexual pleasure matters (congratulations for being in the 25%, I'm glad you enjoy it - but the other 75% need to be empowered, in the proper, meaningful sense of empowered, to say "no, this isn't doing anything for me/is painful - and what the hell is sex about if not mutual pleasure?").

Deal with that stuff first, properly and thoroughly, and then maybe you can get onto "now here's a niche activity that about a quarter of women enjoy, and if you're in that quarter, here's how to do it safely."

I disagree that it's promotion, so that's where our different responses stem from.

Also, anal play/sex is normal. As normal as any other non-PIV sex.

Pressure to engage in any sex act is a problem, normalising violence and sexual coercion is a problem, the concept of 'giving' sex or sex being something you 'do to' someone rather than 'do with' someone is a problem...but aiming to silence discussion about safe sexual practice is not the way to combat those issues.

I also don't see how this article is stopping of these other suggested themes for articles - on sexual agency, seeking pleasure for oneself, building trust in a sexual relationship etc - all sound like good ideas for discussion alongst sexually inquisitive teens to me. Anyone going to write/submit them for publishing?

I've just read the article. Personality I think it is well balanced, it states a number of time that it isn't for everyone, give safety tips and explains that it is something people can enjoy. IMO its better than randomly doing a Google search, having to seek out information like you are doing something wrong. Noons is forcing anyone to read the article or engage in anal sex its just giving information.

Its nice to see a thread like this where people have been able to have an adult debate, these things all too often descent into attacks on people that express their opinion which puts people off posting. Proof we all don't have to agree on everything but we can have a proper conversation.

SerendipityFelix

I'm glad that you usually agree with me! And I don't mind at all that you don't on this point.

I understand you are saying they're doing it anyway, let's get them tools to do it safely.

My problem is the reason they are doing it anyway (if they all are, are they?).

M0stly has explained it above.

I'm happy for information to be given. I am disturbed that this information is aimed at 13 year olds and the conclusion is they're doing it anyway.

The conclusion needs addressing.

The reasons they are doing it isn't because 'it's fun and we just need advice on the right lube.'

Give young girls the tools to confidently establish boundaries.

First, foremost and always.

Then point them to a medically explained article, with neutral language.