"Break the silence around rape and violence against women" but don't mention grooming gang rape and violence against girls

I love the guardian and subscribe and pay for it too.
However I was deleted x 2 for asking how to address the issues of violent males prisoners and male Atheletes who identify as women.
Supporting trans issues is great and I am glad they do it but they do it blinding and they aren't interested in women's rights.

The attacks in Cologne and Hamburg and the grooming gangs in the UK are the same as the rapes in Srebrenica and the treatment of the Yazidi women in Iraq. Its rape as a weapon of war. Its also about showing the wider white community male and female that they are powerless to stop it.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocidal_rape

Good point Mrs T, you pointed out a factual in accuracy in my post, correctly as it happens because I double checked it. That seems to me to be better than simply deleting something because you don't like it. That was my point about how the Guardian will just stop accepting comments on contentious articles, CNN will threaten to expose people who make memes, Goverments will clamp down on non violent "hate speech" on facebook and twitter. And we'll pretend we live in a democracy.

scallops Think about the child abuse and sexual abuse cases in children's homes during the last 50 - 70 years. Predominantly white males.

But the population is predominantly white... (Though only half male.) Surely the percentage compared to the general population or the population that would have access to the children is what matters. Are men from other cultures over/underrepresented in the stats? Sorry if I'm being dim.

No joining of the dots about how white males have a problem not abusing children whilst being left in charge of them.
It is easier, more identifiable and more people buy in to the thinking around brown men raping white girls.

I guess this takes us back to Vestal's excellent point that men are so reluctant to acknowledge misogyny and male violence that they can only join the dots on the "brown men" issue, and then bury their heads in the sand for fear of being racist. It's ridiculous - if the men at Cologne (for example) had attacked white women and men, then you could say there is a race issue at stake. But men attacking women is clearly about misogyny! Its like some stupid identity politics thing where being from an ethnic minority somehow cancels out their crimes against another oppressed group.

Can't fact check you now!

Any other factual errors Mrs T.

Interesting that my post was deleted. What rules did I break ?.

Nice rant. You're completely wrong of course. One obvious factual error is that the children of immigrants are markedly more likely to do well in education than their native born peers.

The girls in the example who were pimped were not related to Asian gangs, just to clarify.

M0stly the women I know who were involved in Rochdale gangs etc were targetted specifically because in the main they were not girls that were massively cared about. Girls who were chronic absconders being delivered back to their pimps by the police when they were caught soliciting and received drug and prostitution convictions when their pimps and dealers were caught and named them. Their social workers were too busy to check up on why they were staying away for days on end because eventually they were brought home by the police. I remember Jeremy Forrest taking Megan Stammers to France and people suggesting she should have known better than to seduce a married teacher and what about his career, if she loved him she should have waited until she had left the school.
Each culture has it's own share of misogyny and male entitlement. I know a group of teenage and young men on trial for one crime (not sexual assault but potentially outing details, though I doubt it's that uncommon) some of whom have physical disabilities etc which mean they would not have been able to commit the crime, most of whom are on trial based on their connection with one man seen on cctv after the crime, they are all black. Why are the police not worried about being labelled racist for that? I feel that fear of being accused of racism is a convenient excuse. Maybe it is sometimes the case.
I think it's very clear that certain crimes are brushed under the carpet as "reward" or as a result of the power and status of the perpetrators and it's that much easier to do in the case of sexual exploitation, abuse or violence against women and young girls because the victim blaming attitude already exists.
It doesn't mean that some X demographic don't commit these crimes but they're a convenient scapegoat when it goes tits up.

Also from me, knobofstork.

I think what all these gangs of groomers have in common, regardless of rape, is some sort of subculture which makes them feel they are both entitled and untouchable - whether that's religious (gangs from Muslim backgrounds, Catholic priests, recent cases in the Anglican church), celebrity based (the group in the BBC - Savile, Hall), educational establishments (boarding schools, reform schools), politicians (Cyril Smith), sporting groups (football coaches offering the chance of fame and fortune in the Premiership).

Opportunistic and perverted men from any ethnic background and culture will do this - what is at issue for the wider society is the way the rest of us collude or whistle-blow on these subcultures. Do we brush reports under the carpet because we might be called racist/ sued by people who are extremely rich and powerful/ think they do good work for charity so can't possibly have done what they're accused of/ are sporting heroes we look up to/ insert excuse of choice here? Or do we pursue suspicions effectively and impartially? Do we "other" the victims or do we take their testimony seriously?

Knob

The telegraph never wrote an article about how we were sacrificed to the altar of white male violence, we were disposable and, barely teenagers, asking for it/knew what we were doing/cried rape later because we were ashamed of ourbown behaviour/seducing adult men who sought us out. They were innocent, men can't help fucking children if it's there on a plate.

Absolutely scallops - thank you for articulating that

The Guardian is definitely trying to suit an American audience lately.

Wrt to grooming gangs. I am a survivor of child sexual exploitation, I now work with other survivors. A very large portion of CSE is not gang or group related, and a large portion of groups are not Muslim. I work with women groomed by gangs of every ethnicity, the majority of them have their crime in common, not skin colour, culture or religion. Children with disabilities are more vulnerable and fly under the radar, LGBT or questioning children become easy targets, children exploited by their own peers or by family members. But it doesn't fit the narrative. I was not groomed by an Asian gang, nor were my abusers grooming me because their religion or race made them think they were superior. I was groomed because they could get away with it, because it was easy to blame me for my own actions.

True!

What an articulate and thoughtful contribution.
Broadmoor is that way mate >>>

Great post scallops

Gah! Clicky link

when will we get an edit button

M0stly - I found what you said upthread about Sweden really interesting:

it is mostly an artefact of the fact that the Swedes catalogue the stats round sexual violence much more rigorously than anyone else - but in the face of reports that they also do not record the ethnicity of the perpetrators for fear of stoking racism, it becomes hard to come up with really sound knock-down arguments

Although it's coming from a well-intentioned position, the effect of being colour-blind is that although they are keeping more detailed stats than many other places, these aren't helpful to policy makers in thinking about appropriate responses. The danger is that instead they are driven by anecdote (including individual high profile cases), or that they follow the UK media lead and ignore the issue altogether.

I can't remember whether this case has been discussed on FWR before, but [[http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2268395/Adil-Rashid-Paedophile-claimed-Muslim-upbringing-meant-didnt-know-illegal-sex-girl-13.html it is a great example of a particular cultural and religious background causing real harm to women in the UK here and now (warning: it's a DM link). It's not racist or Islamophobic to say that it's unacceptable that a man can reach adulthood having always lived in the UK and a) not know about the age of consent; and b) view women as worth "no more than a discarded lollipop" because of what he has been taught by the adults, religious and educational establishments he has attended

Perhaps they do, but that does not mean the cultural aspects of the behaviour of the grooming gangs should not be examined or discussed. No one is saying that Asian males in general have a problem with sexual abuse - and your statement to similar effect about white men is just as ridiculous as such a statement would be, by the way. But there is without a doubt a cultural element to the behaviour, which also produces abuse of women within the Asian community. Why should this be ignored?

The problem I have with pointing out the race in grooming gangs, is whilst it might be true, there is far more systematic rape and sexual abuse that goes on by white men thT is not scrutinised in the same way. The dots are not joined, or it takes a lot longer. Think about the child abuse and sexual abuse cases in children's homes during the last 50 - 70 years. Predominantly white males. No joining of the dots about how white males have a problem not abusing children whilst being left in charge of them.

It is easier, more identifiable and more people buy in to the thinking around brown men raping white girls.