"Two British men become the first to give birth"

I am just so done with all this crap

In my more paranoid moments I think the trans movement is a deliberate ploy to bring down feminism and Lgb as a secondary effect with one stone.

Throughout history every valid cause has had opposition, some open like the kkk, some stealthily like disability rights & benefits bashing in the media, some through being hijacked by idiots with their own agenda such as Catholic emancipation. But so far nobody has managed to halt feminism or lgb rights, or send them backwards. Even though progress is sometimes so slow it feels like it!

The trans ideology is the ideal fix all. You send feminism backwards, whilst jumping on the lgb bandwagon. So you get to discredit lgb as a group by making them look responsible, but at the same time escape criticism by taking refuge in the vulnerable status of lgb. And also get to destroy support for transsexuals and the tiny minority of people who were transgender before it was cool, and have never infringed women's rights.

An all round winner.

Although possibly they miscalculated the feminist/ lesbian part of the equation. Society tells us feminists are mainly lesbian, so I can also imagine it being the case that simply by infiltrating the lgbt community they thought they could get the majority of feminists, i.e lesbians, on side.

Orwell was spot on about distortion of language and meaning as a tool.

Well it's supposed to be balanced but it is very pro trans. Don't have time to summarise but I had to listen in several bouts because it was giving me the rage so much. It does have a reasonable item on de-transitioning and various others including Janet Mock. Doesn't actually include the 'TERF' viewpoint at all, just dialogue as to why this view is so mean. Will try to summarise later

So this is a pro-trans thing?

Can you give a short version of it in writing? Having had thrown the slur "terf" at me way too often in the recent time, I don't think I can stomach any more of this bullshit - but I'd like to know what their theory is of why "terfs" are worse than men who beat up, kill and rape trans.

Talking of Left Wing bollocks, have a listen to the new Best Of The Left podcast discussing 'TERFS'. Warning: most of it with make you blow braincells

www.bestoftheleft.com/_1118_a_look_in_at_the_terf_wars_feminism_and_trans_rights

What happened to "it's all in your head" that women normally get fobbed off with? Something is fucking weird about this trans thing; it doesn't add up.

It upholds patriarchy, that's why women claiming to be men get special treatment.
It is the same thing as the sworn virgins of Albania, who were legally considered men (but were not allowed to marry a man OR a woman).
Could they just give all women the right to inherit property? Sure, they could have, but that would have undermined their patriarchy, so they didn't.
(The tradition died out when changes in larger politics meant that all women could inherit property, hold a job, etc.)

As long as the women demanding to be treated as human are clear that it is an exception that is only to be made for them, and that they have no intention of supporting other women in demanding the same, they are given preferential treatment.

no way should the NHS be paying to have healthy tissue (breasts) removed when some people can't get their cancer treatment funded on the NHS

I'm wary of comparing treatments in this way as it often seems to be used to disparage those who have surgery for medical reasons that greatly improves their quality of life - eg. breast reduction due to pain and so on. But ... it's extremely difficult to get a breast reduction op on the NHS normally, even for medical reasons! Yet they will do it because someone thinks they are really a man?! What happened to "it's all in your head" that women normally get fobbed off with? Something is fucking weird about this trans thing; it doesn't add up.

I suspect the ongoing lack of funding/care about mental health contributes. No way would they be able/willing to provide the kind of therapy necessary to explore issues around gender dysphoria and help someone come to terms with their body. The lack of funding and subsequent culture of quick-fixes means that referring for surgery is the "easiest" way.

God, so depressing. Why can't the lesbian couple in this article just accept they're lesbians and don't conform to narrow gender stereotypes, fight misogyny and wear whatever clothes they like? Why mutilate their bodies? The thing that has me angriest though - no way should the NHS be paying to have healthy tissue (breasts) removed when some people can't get their cancer treatment funded on the NHS (see the second episode of the recent series of "hospital" ). Heartening that none of the comments accept this story though.

I'm not normally into conspiracies but it does make you wonder... the way the trans stuff, despite being clearly bonkers, seems to have made such headway so quickly, and the media on board too... it does discredit the left.

The whole trans nonsense is actually right-wing propaganda in disguise.

I mean, the whole gender thing. That's what feminists have fought against since basically forever. The suffragettes fought the notion that female brains were somehow not equipped to decide on a vote.

The only thing in which the transagenda differs from the oldfashioned genderbullshit is that it pretends you get to choose.

This would never have happened before women got the vote. Males wouldn't have wanted to sign their voting rights away by claiming that they have a ladybrain, and sure as hell would not have wanted to give women who claimed a case of manbrain the vote. (Because all women would have claimed manbrain then)

Only now that all official oppressions have been removed in the US and Europe, it benefits misogynist men to pretend that you get to choose. You don't, of course. The only tiny bit of freedom that women get by transagenda is the freedom to have a sterilization without questions asked - but the price for that is lifelong dependency on artificial hormones (you don't get to have just your tubes tied by claiming manbrain, you have to sacrifice your ovaries and uterus), which keeps you under control just as nicely as being pregnant or having children would.

And males get access to women in spaces where feminists had originally achieved (relative) safety for women. Women's toilets enabled women to participate in public life - not anymore.
Shelters enabled women to leave abusive husbands without risking homelessness - well, now it is off to the streets again if you don't want to share your room with a male.
Imprisoning women in a cell with men was deemed inappropriate the moment prisons became more about resocialisation than just safekeeping until the execution, as everyone could clearly see what it led to.

Trans is deeply, deeply right-wing. Right-wing propaganda painted pink and disguised with glitter.

It is such a "back to misogyny" movement that some conservatives even don't recognize it as being on their side, because conservative men got used to their wives and daughters being able to safely move in public, use showers and changing rooms in public places, etc, and don't remember the time when it was different thanks to men like them. Not all conservatives want back to the time when a woman's place was in the home and girls weren't sent to school. That's why they oppose trans agenda.

Otherwise, they'd gladly support it.

Olenna I actually LOLed at the suggestion that the Telegraph is actually a secret left wing publication

I sometimes think the Guardian is actually right-wing... a parody of the left-wing.

Which also seems to be the case for the trans ideology. It's like a parody.

I think ignoring people's concerns over immigration (the poorest being the most affected) has meant people end up turning to the right even if it's otherwise in their interests to turn to the left. I really fear what will happen as a result of the ludicrous trans ideology... often see comments about it being "typical looney left" and so on.

I'm not normally into conspiracies but it does make you wonder... the way the trans stuff, despite being clearly bonkers, seems to have made such headway so quickly, and the media on board too... it does discredit the left.

As for the autism link, there may also be a link to sexual assault link. I read a newspaper article regarding a gender clinic in Australia, where the psychiatrist reported teenaged girls saying stuff like ‘If only I had been a male I wouldn’t have been abused’

Yes.
I do think it is a reaction to misogyny in (almost) all women. (Might be caused by a hormonal problem in some, but as long as we live in a patriarchy, how are we to know? We do know that there used to be more male transsexuals not so long ago)
But I have more compassion for girls who hate their female bodies (and experience dysphoria) after sexual assault than for women who just think it'd be nice to opt out of being subject to misogyny without having to do any work to fight it, and who don't even feel at all dysphoric.

Actually they aren't the first transmen to give birth.

Since the only thing "male" about them is a feeling in their head, that is pretty much certain. Lots of women have feelings in their heads and like "boy things", and dislike femininity, and quite some of those women give birth.

Actually they aren't the first transmen to give birth. They're maybe just the first that have gone public but I know for a fact they aren't the first. Obviously I cant and won't identify anyone.

TBH, the more such stories are carried in the press, the better. Because the natural reaction of most people wavers between 'WTF' and 'get a grip'.

Whilst we can (mostly) all sympathise with someone struggling with dysphoria, this woman clearly isn't; else she'd be too disgusted with the whole icky business of dealing with her female reproductive system to even consider pregnancy.

As for the autism link, there may also be a link to sexual assault link. I read a newspaper article regarding a gender clinic in Australia, where the psychiatrist reported teenaged girls saying stuff like ‘If only I had been a male I wouldn’t have been abused’.

vestal I thought FTM transition was closely associated with autism.
I do think it's about time the press and bodies such as the NHS stopped pandering to these kinds of delusions. By all means, address them by their chosen names and pronouns in order to be polite, but that's as far as it should go, IMO. There's absolutely no need for a paper such as the telegraph to pretend that men can become pregnant and give birth. It just makes them look ridiculous, on a oar with the old daily sport really.
Interesting to read the comments though. I don't think the general public is buying it. Similar to what I've noticed on youtube on trans related topics. Many people just aren't going alonng with the trans idealogy, and have no problem saying so.

I was so amazed when I read the headline and wondered how the hell I'd managed to miss the other headlines regarding this path of natural evolution.

Then I saw the picture and realised it's just a normal everyday woman with a short haircut and ear stretchers. How disappointing and boringly normal. Must have been a slow news day.

Surely if you 'feel like a man' but also want to give birth, you haven't understood the first thing about being a man

I have increasingly come to be convinced that transmen think that:

woman = an inferior being who deserves to be oppressed, and may even want to be oppressed.
man = superior person who deserves to get to oppress others.

Nothing about biology, they are fine with other women being oppressed, they just think they belong to the superior class. Biology has nothing to do with it, in their heads. (Of course as long as they have an uterus, they will be oppressed to that their reproductive capacity can be exploited by patriarchy, but they don't see that. I wonder when there'll be the first transman who wonders why "he" can't get an abortion in Ireland ... there already was the case of the transman who was surprised that a rapist would target "him" and explaining "his" gender identity didn't help.)

It is a bit like poor Americans who believe that they are, in their true, inner selves, millionaires, and their wealth will soon materialize, and they don't want to pay any taxes to support those inferior, bad cis poor when the day comes that they transition to millionaire.

Just even more delusional because poor people can become rich (though it is unlikely) but women cannot become men, and only a lucky few manage to pass so well that they can get male privilege when it comes to pay, etc.

I'm so by all of this right now.
I don't care what you want to identify yourself as but how can you complain about others not identifying you correctly when evidently the lines are so blurred.
You want the right to identify as male.
You want the right to procreate using your female reproductive organs.
and eating it comes to mind.

Surely if you 'feel like a man' but also want to give birth, you haven't understood the first thing about being a man ?

*world gone damn you auto correct!

How on earth can this be news ?

Woman gives birth to baby is hardly stop the press surely.

Has the works fine utterly bonkers?!!! Unless I woke up this morning on planet gaga?

If I think about how I know I am a woman, it always comes down to biology. So I can't understand how you can think you are a man if you have used your female biology to have a child.

In addition to the obvious fact that they are not men can I also complain about the title "two British men became the first..."? They can't both be the first!