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Original poster

Can anyone explain queer heterosexuality to me?

183 replies

featherland · 08/07/2017 22:40

I have noticed over the last few months / years more and more people I know on Facebook identifying themselves as queer, even though they are in heteronormative relationships.

For example, I went to a friend's wedding. It was very traditional - big white gown, all male speeches etc. she has been with her husband since she was a teenager and never (publicly) been in a relationship with a woman. She describes herself as femme and queer - and often posts photos of herself looking very beautiful and typically 'feminine' (makeup, pretty clothes ..) describing herself as such, with loads of pride emoticons.

I just .. Don't get it? I understand the desire to reject gender norms and heteronormativity. But surely those of us who are straight and in monogamous relationships can't just claim the word queer when we receive (willingly or not) all the social privileges of being straight?

And I can understand wanting to stand in solidarity with LGBTQ people. But don't we need to change heteronormative society rather than muscle in on the spaces created by and for people who are marginalised? Eg I am not married, mainly because I can't reconcile myself with the patriarchal history of marriage. I don't see that doing heteronormative tings and saying that you aren't is really queer? If there is such a thing as queer heterosexuality shouldn't it be about living in non normative ways?

OP posts:
Original poster
featherland · 09/07/2017 17:21

will I really hate the way I'm advertised to 'as a mother'. I hate the phrase 'as a mother.' I hate the cultural assumption that I care more about my children than anyone else's, or that I'm a more productive member of society than I was before I had children.

I'm sorry for expressing myself so clumsily today.

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Original poster
featherland · 09/07/2017 17:13

Also - blimey - that queer spaces post is insane!!

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WillRikersExtraNipple · 09/07/2017 17:10

I'm a mother but I don't identify with any of the socially acceptable permutations of the role of 'mother' as defined & reinforced in our culture at large

Are we now claiming that motherhood is now a spectrum as well? What about the role of mother as defined by society do you have a problem with?

VestalVirgin · 09/07/2017 17:05

Ah, ok. Smile

Original poster
featherland · 09/07/2017 17:03

To be clear - I don't think everyone is bi. But I was agreeing with datun that it is very innate. So I used to assume that other people were like me - just like she had posted that it was hard for straight people to imagine being bi.

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VestalVirgin · 09/07/2017 16:46

as in, i assumed we were all on a spectrum, and that if we lived in a free society then we could all have relationships with people regardless of gender, rather than having to identify iur sexual preferences as some kind of personality feature ...

Sex. People are attracted to the female or the male sex, not gender.

And no, some women are just not attracted to the male sex at all, and that's okay.

There are probably a lot of bisexual women (or really, even lesbians) who are in the closet and married to a man, because it is just easier, but I really don't think that openly homosexual people are secretly attracted to the other sex.
That just doesn't make sense. If they were, they'd be open about it. Being bisexual as a woman is a lot more accepted by the general public than being a lesbian. Men think it's sexy if a woman kisses another women, but women rejecting men? Men don't like that at all.

QuentinSummers · 09/07/2017 16:44

That's very strange datun. How do lesbian and gay people oppress "queer" people??!!
It's kind of like "cis"women oppress trans women. Such bollocks

Datun · 09/07/2017 16:38

I think it means because you are really gay, you get to that label and 'validation' and I want some of that too because I'm jealous.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/07/2017 16:38

Sorry, I meant I passed on trying to make any sense of it.

Datun · 09/07/2017 16:37

Oh sorry, I thought the photo hadn't been attached!

Datun · 09/07/2017 16:37

Oops

Can anyone explain queer heterosexuality to me?
LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/07/2017 16:34

Pass.

Datun · 09/07/2017 16:33

Perhaps someone can make sense of this for me?

Can anyone explain queer heterosexuality to me?
Datun · 09/07/2017 16:31

featherland

I do find it very interesting, actually.

Because I have wondered the same thing. Whether it is just convention that makes me straight.

But I've concluded that it just isn't in me to fall in love with another woman.

But I can separate out sex and love.

It would be far easier to experiment sexually rather than emotionally, if you see what I mean.

But it would just be that - an experiment. It doesn't get me going.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/07/2017 16:29

datum very interesting about sexuality! I've always assumed everyone is bi but it's just society that forces people to pretend they are one way or the other!

I really don't think so. There are clearly societies where being homosexual is problematic but like datum I'm sure my complete lack of interest in women as sexual partners has nothing to do with societal expectations.

Original poster
featherland · 09/07/2017 16:21

Sorry - I'm very tired and not being very articulate at the moment.

I meant to say that I've always assumed our social identities are more to do with social permissions than with true self representation. And so in a very real sense we are born into it, and have to reconcile the position we find ourselves in. As a white mother in a monogamous relationship with a man I don't really like any of the cultural conventions associated with those labels, or even the labels themselves. But I have to find a way to live with them/ challenge them through the way I live.

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Original poster
featherland · 09/07/2017 16:17

(as in, i assumed we were all on a spectrum, and that if we lived in a free society then we could all have relationships with people regardless of gender, rather than having to identify iur sexual preferences as some kind of personality feature ...)

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Original poster
featherland · 09/07/2017 16:16

datum very interesting about sexuality! I've always assumed everyone is bi but it's just society that forces people to pretend they are one way or the other!

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Original poster
featherland · 09/07/2017 16:15

Yes I totally agree about the comparison with race - I don't 'identify' positively with everything about being white, but I can't just pretend that I'm not, or that I don't receive the privileges associated with it. I have always thought it is more to do with social perceptions rather than self identification. Eg I'm a woman but I don't identify with most of the associations of the female gender. That's what I was (clumsily) trying to say about motherhood too - I'm a mother but I don't identify with any of the socially acceptable permutations of the role of 'mother' as defined & reinforced in our culture at large. In fact, I find them suffocating and oppressive in exactly the same was as most other gender norms.

I guess another aspect of that particular fb friend's identity that I find problematic is the 'femme' part. She adheres to all conventional gender norms (and presumably receives all the 'privileges' associated) but says she's not? Because I find all those gender norms so difficult, j just don't get her position.

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cuirderussie · 09/07/2017 16:08

Just to add, I understand the idea of reclaiming slurs, and how gay people use it. Straight people bandying it around is like white people using the n-word to be honest.

Freshprincess · 09/07/2017 15:57

known lots of people who suffered physical and verbal abuse for being gay and I wouldn't dream of appropriating a word that I remember as a slur
Same for me. When I was a student I lived in a house share with two gay men. i remember walking through the estate with a Gang following us shouting 'queer' at us. I remember sitting in casualty with one housemate after he'd been beaten up. That word for me has hateful Conatations. i just don't get it.

cuirderussie · 09/07/2017 14:51

Drives me mad too. A friend's 17 year old daughter identifies as "trans" (she has short hair but wears a ton of make up, presents as entirely female) and "queer" (she has a boyfriend but since she's a "boy" they are gay apparently). I'm in my 40s, I've known lots of people who suffered physical and verbal abuse for being gay and I wouldn't dream of appropriating a word that I remember as a slur, or piggybacking onto their identity for some trivial reason. They're just attention seeking eejits and offensive too.

Datun · 09/07/2017 14:48

I suppose it's harder to get one's head around bisexuality if one is straight. Harder than homosexuality.

Being straight, I can't imagining conjuring up the same feelings for a woman (although I could imagine pissed experimentation).

But, in my head, I would just substitute opposite sex for same sex - and get it.

But both sexes is more difficult to imagine/relate to.

Which is why, I think, bisexual people don't seem to get the same validation. People just think they must predominately come down on one side and the rest is 'messing about'.

Which is terribly unfair.

VestalVirgin · 09/07/2017 14:35

No. Why do you need to identify or over- identify to support rights of LGBT? I can no more identify as a lesbian or a bi- sexual than I can identify as say black or ethnically Jewish or an American indigenous woman.

This.

People generally agree that Rachel Dolezal, the white woman who identifies with black people so much she pretended to be black herself, is completely bonkers.

Why should other rules apply to other people?

Admittedly, it is a bit more complicated with sexual orientation, as people might not be sure about theirs, but if you are married to a man, and intend to stay that way, it is not doing lesbians and bisexual women a favour to call yourself "queer" on Facebook.
Next thing that happens could be parents telling their lesbian daughters that it's okay they're "queer", as they can still marry a man. Confused

A bisexual woman who wants people to know she is bisexual even though she's married to a man should have the decency to describe herself as bisexual.
"Queer" is such a diffuse word. It could mean anything, and will only cause confusion.

TeiTetua · 09/07/2017 14:30

I think we're too quick to accept that bisexual means "attracted to both women and men" without thinking about whether a person is also monogamous. So it should be reasonable for someone who had a same-sex relationship in the past but has had a single hetero partner for years to say "I suppose back then I proved that I'm bisexual, but I seem to have settled down with X for the duration."