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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can anyone explain queer heterosexuality to me?

183 replies

featherland · 08/07/2017 22:40

I have noticed over the last few months / years more and more people I know on Facebook identifying themselves as queer, even though they are in heteronormative relationships.

For example, I went to a friend's wedding. It was very traditional - big white gown, all male speeches etc. she has been with her husband since she was a teenager and never (publicly) been in a relationship with a woman. She describes herself as femme and queer - and often posts photos of herself looking very beautiful and typically 'feminine' (makeup, pretty clothes ..) describing herself as such, with loads of pride emoticons.

I just .. Don't get it? I understand the desire to reject gender norms and heteronormativity. But surely those of us who are straight and in monogamous relationships can't just claim the word queer when we receive (willingly or not) all the social privileges of being straight?

And I can understand wanting to stand in solidarity with LGBTQ people. But don't we need to change heteronormative society rather than muscle in on the spaces created by and for people who are marginalised? Eg I am not married, mainly because I can't reconcile myself with the patriarchal history of marriage. I don't see that doing heteronormative tings and saying that you aren't is really queer? If there is such a thing as queer heterosexuality shouldn't it be about living in non normative ways?

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OvariesForgotHerPassword · 09/07/2017 18:52

Lass Yeah I don't agree with that theory. DH and I discussed this a few weeks ago. He is not and cannot imagine being attracted to even the idea of having sex with a man. It does nothing for him, he just says he doesn't enjoy the thought of it and wouldn't enjoy the act.

I definitely don't think it's anything to do with being adventurous.

simplysleepy · 09/07/2017 18:51

sorry, meant to add, the A is indeed for asexuals// agendered people

MaisyPops · 09/07/2017 18:51

Why do people feel the need to describe themselves as anything? I've had relationships with men and women. I suppose that makes me bisexual but I don't feel the need to correct people if they assume I'm heterosexual if I'm in a relationship with a man
I'm married to DH and have had relationships with women. I'm more interested in men but fairly open minded. I used to identify as bi but found it seemed to end up with a massive focus on whether bi women are using bi as a half way to coming out as lesbian or really straight women trying to be cool.
Now I just don't really care. DH and and I are in a heterosexual marriage and it's nobody's business who I find attractive.

simplysleepy · 09/07/2017 18:48

JugglingFromHereToThere the Q in the acronym hasn't consistently and historically meant queer, and was more often used for 'questioning'
the full acronym lgbtqia=
lesbians, gay men, bisexuals, transgender, intersex, queer, and questioning people collectively
the plus can include pansexuals, polyamourous people, Skoliosexuals, and more.

stonewall has a very useful definition of ''queer", taken from odyssey;
' a term that encompasses individuals of varying gender and sexual identities. It is used in a positive manner in the LGBTQIA+ community since the acronym is long and complex. Referring to it as the "queer community" abbreviates that, but queer is also a reclaimed word. Using it in a positive manner? Typically acceptable. Using it in a derogatory and derisive manner and trying to defend using it that way by saying that the community does? Never okay'

CloudPerson · 09/07/2017 18:47

Queer, intersexual (?) asexual (?) perhaps?

Someone mentioned that you couldn't be bisexual unless you've tried it, I'm not certain about that. At school, I remember most girls being straight even before they'd had sex, would this not be the case if you were bisexual? Is it not the fact that you have sexual feelings for both men and women?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/07/2017 18:46

I think it must be hard to wrap your head around if you've never had any attraction to both sexes

No that isn't hard. What is hard is this idea that we are all on the spectrum- that we are all a bit bi but it's just a lack of a sense of adventure or fear holding us back.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/07/2017 18:43

I love my DC and my relationship with But I don't identify with anything associated with motherhood, except in a strictly biological sense. I'm working through it though ...

Sorry but that seems as logical as the trans position of refusing to acknowledge the biological realities of what make up biological sex differences.

JugglingFromHereToThere · 09/07/2017 18:39

I'm interested to understand more about what the word "queer"would represent, the Q in LGBTQ +

And I see simply has a longer string of letters there ....... lgbtqia +

Anyone care to shed more light on the QIA and +

I do agree with an earlier response to a post of mine though, that people are people. You have to see the fundamentals we all have in common too.

OvariesForgotHerPassword · 09/07/2017 18:38

I can understand why some bi people in male-female relationships/marriages identify as straight. It's a lot easier than facing the "if you're bi why are you with a man?" questions.

For me, I still identify as bi. I put bisexual on official forms, and if asked about sexuality I will say I'm bisexual and answer any subsequent questions. The way I see it, DH is still straight even though he's married to me, so I'm still bi even though I'm married to him.

I think it must be hard to wrap your head around if you've never had any attraction to both sexes.

featherland · 09/07/2017 18:38

Yes will I care for them but I'm talking about the cultural, gendered role of 'mother.' I must be explaining myself very badly because, from a radical feminist perspective, I don't think it's a very controversial thing to say that the cultural role of 'mother' is problematic.

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simplysleepy · 09/07/2017 18:37

I think you don't, simply. By these standards the umbrella has pretty much everyone in it. That's inclusion to the point of obsoletion

no, its inclusion of the whole lgbtqia* community. straight people are not queer people. end of. anyone else in the community is queer, although some prefer not to use the term.

its not to the point of obseletion as it creates a space where anyone in the community feels comfortable. i'm queer, i told people at pride yesterday that i was queer when asked, but i didn't feel the need to describe the ins and outs of my sexual preferences. its a word which can be used without judgement (parts of the community of the community are notoriously anti--lesbian for example)

WillRikersExtraNipple · 09/07/2017 18:24

I love my DC and my relationship with them. But I don't identify with anything associated with motherhood, except in a strictly biological sense

But you do identify with the main thing associated with motherhood, you just said it: you love your children and your relationship with them. I presume you also feed them, provide for them, teach them, clean up after them, drive them around, arrange their schooling, and a million other things associated with motherhood?

sorry, but you don't seem to understand the umbrella of the word queer

I think you don't, simply. By these standards the umbrella has pretty much everyone in it. That's inclusion to the point of obsoletion.

simplysleepy · 09/07/2017 18:20

sorry, but you don't seem to understand the umbrella of the word queer.
its literally anyone who identifies on the lgbtqia+ spectrum. there's a large problem with bi and pan erasure, and therefore for you to say she shouldn't claim the world queer is damaging and erasing bi and pansexual identities

leghoul · 09/07/2017 18:19

No idea about the friend in question but just because someone is in a heterosexual relationship and even gets married does not mean they are straight.

JigglyTuff · 09/07/2017 18:17

Why do people feel the need to describe themselves as anything? I've had relationships with men and women. I suppose that makes me bisexual but I don't feel the need to correct people if they assume I'm heterosexual if I'm in a relationship with a man Confused

Actually I have no idea what people assume - I don't tend to discuss what box I fit in

Bunlicker · 09/07/2017 18:14

As you can probably tell I use queer to describe myself (I'm bi but aromantic with women). Queer is a really nice way to describe myself. And I won't accept judgement from people who haven't even bothered to research

This was from a recent thread it sums up queer to me completely. The poster is basically saying they're bisexual but not in to women... which is straight last I checked. But the op was obv just a bigot for not researching queerness better

Bunlicker · 09/07/2017 18:06

Im a vegetarian and I find it very annoying when pescatarians call themselves vegetarian as it confuses the hellnout of everyone and then I end up at an awkward dinner party with a sea bass in front of me and an annoyed host who wonders why I won't eat my 'vegetarian' dinner.

I wonder if that's what being a lesbian is like at the moment. A load of straight women calling themselves 'queer' while merrily sucking dick and confusing the issue for lesbians.

featherland · 09/07/2017 17:57

datun I like that approach - calling yourself mother because of what it means to you. I think for me (and I'm sure I'm not alone in this), becoming a mother was the moment when the full weight of patriarchal capitalism came down on me like a tonne of bricks, so I'm very wary of the term and all its associations. Privately, I think about it like this: I love my DC and my relationship with them. But I don't identify with anything associated with motherhood, except in a strictly biological sense. I'm working through it though ...

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featherland · 09/07/2017 17:53

extra that is very interesting - my friend only started calling herself queer after we got married to a man! And it was a very traditional, gendered white wedding. So ... Why? Why not have a non-traditional wedding, or maybe not get married at all, or maybe live your life in a way that regularly challenges stereotypes, rather than conform to social norms but then just declare that you don't?

I also have a fb acquaintance who is a man married to a woman who calls himself queer. Often mentioned in posts about how we should call pregnant women 'birthing people' and such tosh. I have just decided that he's a total tosser.

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Datun · 09/07/2017 17:53

I agree that 'mother' comes with a whole heap of connotations. Some negative, some positive.

When I had to complete various mortgage forms which asked for occupation (I wasn't working then), I crossed out housewife (as it was termed then) and wrote mother, though. As I felt it more aptly described my role.

But when people start sentences with as a mother, I usually take it to mean they have experience of raising children which might be informative to the person they are speaking with.

featherland · 09/07/2017 17:44

Yeah, will I think you and I are in agreement. As I wrote earlier, i am a mother but i don't like most of the gendered associations that come with the role of 'mother' as defined by and enforced by society; in exactly the same way as I am a woman but I don't like most of the gendered associations heaped on me culturally because of that.

But seeing as I am a woman (and a mother) I am interested in ways to challenge those associations, which are cultural and not natural. I cannot declare myself to not be a woman or not be a mother, but I can reject the gendered associations they have (and which I am forced, to some extent, to internalise or perform) in our culture.

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ExtraPineappleExtraHam · 09/07/2017 17:41

This is a fascinating post, I'm so glad someone posted it because I've been confused about the seemingly straight people I know refer to themselves as queer. I also have a friend who describes herself as bi-sexual but hasn't actually 'done the do' with a woman. I have and the reality was very different to my imagined version (think I just imagined stroking Beyoncé's hair and nuzzling her thighs.) I now describe myself as straight, although maybe it was just those few woman that didn't really do it for me. If my friend hasn't experienced making love with a woman than how can she say she is into it? Is it to make herself sound interesting? If she really is bisexual then how come she's never experimented? I mean we're both in the goth scene, it wouldn't be that hard to find someone!

WillRikersExtraNipple · 09/07/2017 17:24

(
OR also if you have legally adopted children, obviously)

WillRikersExtraNipple · 09/07/2017 17:23

But that is about marketing, and nothing at all with the actual label of being a mother. Have other people come out of your vagina? You're a mother.

VestalVirgin · 09/07/2017 17:21

Are we now claiming that motherhood is now a spectrum as well?

That would just be silly.

While "mother" has always had a part of its definition that was not biology (adoptive mothers are mothers, too, and usually called that) I do think we should rather fight to remove the sexist societal connotations that come with it than inventing silly names for the core meaningof the word - and the core meaning of "mother" is "person who gave birth to a child" - we use the same word for animals that don't even raise their young, and we also talk of companies being mothers and having daughters, something that involves creating something new, but does not involve any cooking, cleaning or housekeeping.