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Original poster

Can anyone explain queer heterosexuality to me?

183 replies

featherland · 08/07/2017 22:40

I have noticed over the last few months / years more and more people I know on Facebook identifying themselves as queer, even though they are in heteronormative relationships.

For example, I went to a friend's wedding. It was very traditional - big white gown, all male speeches etc. she has been with her husband since she was a teenager and never (publicly) been in a relationship with a woman. She describes herself as femme and queer - and often posts photos of herself looking very beautiful and typically 'feminine' (makeup, pretty clothes ..) describing herself as such, with loads of pride emoticons.

I just .. Don't get it? I understand the desire to reject gender norms and heteronormativity. But surely those of us who are straight and in monogamous relationships can't just claim the word queer when we receive (willingly or not) all the social privileges of being straight?

And I can understand wanting to stand in solidarity with LGBTQ people. But don't we need to change heteronormative society rather than muscle in on the spaces created by and for people who are marginalised? Eg I am not married, mainly because I can't reconcile myself with the patriarchal history of marriage. I don't see that doing heteronormative tings and saying that you aren't is really queer? If there is such a thing as queer heterosexuality shouldn't it be about living in non normative ways?

OP posts:
OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 10/07/2017 13:39

But I don't know why I'd need to tick "prefer not to say"? Confused I'm quite happy to put that I'm bisexual on the forms, in the same way that I'm happy to say I'm female and white British and speak Welsh.

If other people want to tick "prefer not to say" that's their choice, but I don't mind filling them out. Not sure why that's a problem? Hmm

terryleather · 10/07/2017 13:12

I have to give out NHS monitoring forms to service users in my workplace and many of the questions are very personal, however there is a prefer not to say check box for every question - I thought that was standard for most forms of this nature?

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/07/2017 12:41

I meant you can just ignore it- no need to lie or fill anything in.

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 10/07/2017 10:28

They asked - they did not require you to reply.

Sorry, I missed the "require" part. Don't Mumsnet on very little sleep Blush I always fill them out. No point me lying and putting "straight" on there Grin

SylviaPoe · 10/07/2017 10:03

Regardless of whether feather comes back or not, she has raised some interesting points.

Terms like lesbian aren't just used for political reasons to indicate oppression.

It is very unlikely that we are ever going to live in a world where there are as many women who are sexually and romantically attracted to women as there are to men.

As that is the case, lesbians are always going to have to develop their own culture and social relationships so that they have greater opportunities to meet each other and form romantic and/or sexual relationships.

Socially identifying as a lesbian has many positive benefits for lesbians. It's not solely or primarily a political statement.

SylviaPoe · 10/07/2017 09:52

Featherland, people are not picking a fight. They're discussing your ideas, which is presumably what you wanted them to do when you started the thread.

Some of the things you have said are pretty controversial, so of course they will be discussed.

Datun · 10/07/2017 09:51

featherland

I don't think people are going out of their way to pick a fight with you. It's true, people don't always read every single comment, just answer the OP.

There are lots of threads on FWR that have this flavour.

People will challenge assertions and opinions. It's the nature of the boards. I've had my opinion challenged, often.

I explain why I think something, but keep an open mind.

A robust challenging of opinion and viewpoints isn't personal.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 10/07/2017 09:37

What official forms require you to state your sexual preferences?
Most recent one was signing up for some work training. Also job applications etc. It's on the equality monitoring bits of most forms

They asked - they did not require you to reply.

Bunlicker · 10/07/2017 09:29

Your post wasn't clear as several of us picked up on it. You did explain but obviously not everyone has time to rtft so that will get missed. I don't think any offence was meant.

Original poster
featherland · 10/07/2017 09:25

I am most surprised on this thread by the idea that anyone feels represented in language. I always assumed all language was a partial and inaccurate construct, that we have to keep refining in collaboration with others. Perhaps this is why I am so lost with contemporary identity politics.

Anyway I'm going now as I seem to have become the person everyone is determined to pick a fight with. I only came here to bat around some ideas, not to be attacked. I thought it might be a space to discuss things but clearly it is a space to pick a fight with other feminists. Enjoy yourselves.

OP posts:
Original poster
featherland · 10/07/2017 09:20

Ffs. I was making the point that I don't understand why people call themselves queer when they conform to all social mainstream norms, but presumably don't totally identify with all of them. I made the comaprison that it would be like me saying I am not a mother when I clearly am, just because some of the cultural associations of 'motherhood' are difficult to identify with. I have not said that I'm not a mother or that I don't consider myself a mother. Simply that the patriarchal connotations of 'mother' are difficult to live with.

My entire point is that I don't understand why you wouldn't just use the word (eg mother) and challenge it's connotations, rather than claim another one.

Why is everyone telling me that I don't think I'm a mother?

OP posts:
Datun · 10/07/2017 09:19

I've just realised that bisexuality is being attacked - from the trans and non-binary community.

I'd seen so much about lesbians being erased, that bisexuals passed me by.

'Bi' indicating the binary is offensive. Naturally. What isn't offensive would be an easier list to compile.

You can't be a lesbian, you can't be bisexual, you can't be heterosexual, in fact, and of course, there is no such thing as woman.

Idiots.

Datun · 10/07/2017 08:40

OvariesBeforeBrovaries

On the equality section? How does that work? Is it to include more people from the LGBT community?

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 10/07/2017 08:36

What official forms require you to state your sexual preferences?

Most recent one was signing up for some work training. Also job applications etc. It's on the equality monitoring bits of most forms.

Datun · 10/07/2017 06:49

featherland

Perhaps it would help if you were more specific about the aspects of being labelled a mother that you find problematic?

There are no doubt some aspects that many people are uncomfortable with.

Like the expectation that you will be the one who gives up work and raises the children, for instance.

Wheelycote · 10/07/2017 06:22

I feel old and confused by all thisConfused why does anyone have to be labelled as anything accept with their name.

My teen son talks about the arguments at school that go on about gender....

I never new Queer was anything other than an old word for gay men

I feel old and out of touch lol

Bunlicker · 10/07/2017 06:11

dn4geek that particular poster referred to her 'aromantic' as being a part of the asexual spectrum. So as far as I could tell, it meant to no love and no sex... which means jack shit really.

MaryTheCanary · 10/07/2017 03:17

What's a skoliosexual? Sounds like something to do with spines....?

SylviaPoe · 10/07/2017 00:37

'I suppose that I feel like the label 'straight' and also to some extent the cultural label 'mother' (which I also find really problematic) are attached to me whether I like it or not. Just like 'queer' was attached to people before it was reclaimed. I don't like lots of the associations of those labels but I recognise they also bring me privileges, and I feel likens have to reconcile myself to them somehow by challenging or expanding the terms.'

This is what started all the comments. You're not straight, you're are a mother. Unless there are very severe issues going on, mothers do want it to be acknowledged that they are mothers.

SylviaPoe · 10/07/2017 00:27

'I'm bi but not at all into BDSM. Why should people care more about one type of my private sexual activity than the other?'

Because being bi is not a 'sexual activity.' It is a sexual and/or romantic attraction to people of both sexes.

It is part of the wider social world that we know and appreciate the people our loved ones love. That's why we announce that we are mothers of children and why we announce that we are lovers of women.

My children, when they were young, new who was gay and who was straight, who was a parent and who was not, because they want to know, quite naturally, who loves whom. They don't ever need to know who is into BDSM. That we talk about one and not the other is not arbitrary at all.

Lurkedforever1 · 10/07/2017 00:02

I agree too. However when I hear a sentence that starts 'as a mother' in rl my immediate association is more negative than otherwise due to the context I hear it in most. As a mother I should agree mrs entitled gets firsts dibs on annual leave, as a mother she should have done x, as a mother I need my hubby to change the light bulb and so on. However it does has positive associations too and the negatives don't dictate what I do or how I feel as a mother.

ALittleBitOfButter · 09/07/2017 23:47

It's something that only white/middleclass/etc people have the capital to do, therefore it isn't intersectional.

ALittleBitOfButter · 09/07/2017 23:45

I agree with Lass on that. Worrying about how your identity as a mother is perceived by others is pointless and navel-gazey. Much better to turn our attention to improving women's material wellbeing.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/07/2017 23:20

I mean - why does anyone care what my sexuality is?

Does any one care? You have spent a large part of this thread telling us what it is.

I'm very interested in how literally people seem to take these identifying categories, though

What "identifying categories"? Being a mother? I gave birth. I am a mother. I went back to work full time when my son was 2 months old. I employed a nanny and a cleaner. I have zero interest in whether or not I complied with any one's expectations of what being a mother is.