The hard left's problem with women

It's like they chose women who are far removed from normal for both men and women on purpose, that these were the sort of women that are ok to lead the Party i.e. very unlike most women

Just stop this nonsense.

What are "normal women"? Are they the same as "real women"? (And I'm not referring to any trans issues there but the sort of drivel Dove peddles about "real women") or "Most women"?

I read masses of stuff on MN (not just FWR) where I just think this bears no relation whatsoever to my life or anything I am interested in. (E.g all bride/wedding/fretting about Christmas/ Mother's day/ threads)

None of this makes me or the other posters or Thatcher or May less or more real or less or more normal.

One thing that really needs to stop is the utter bullshit that Thatcher/May aren't real women (insert utterly ridiculous reason) and therefore it doesn't count that the Labour Party haven't had a female leader. It is ludicrous that the Labour Party have only had white men running the gig.

That's true- it is interesting that the Tories produced 2 female prime ministers- and should shame the other parties.

However, the women that they chose and their personalities…I don't mean to generalise (out of a population of 2) but they really are people who are just not nice at all/just plain weird. I'm not tarring all Tories…I don't agree with all Baroness Warsi's politics but she comes across as a normal human being, as does Ruth Davidson. You can imagine having a good discussion with them, unlike Thatcher/May. It's like they chose women who are far removed from normal for both men and women on purpose, that these were the sort of women that are ok to lead the Party i.e. very unlike most women.

cuir - no, I agree. Labour's roots are not egalitarian, and Momentum (who are in the ascendency in the party) very much reflect this.

I think the difference is that we don't really expect the right wing to do much for minority groups, so we are surprised when they do things like produce two female prime ministers. We expect the left to be the standard bearer of equal opportunities, so it's a shock when we realise that there are very deep veins of misogyny (and anti-semitism) running through the harder end of it.

It's interesting that it's the Tories (much as I dislike them) who've produced two female prime ministers. The old Left has very patriarchal roots with unions, working men's clubs etc- not always of course but there's a tendency.

I think it's part of a general self-righteous, aggressive dynamic against anyone who dares to be different. I've witnessed a lot of hatred for anyone voting Green from JC supporters. I've been accused of being responsible for killing people because I didn't vote Labour (in a Tory constituency with a 15k majority!). They are telling people what to think and get abusive if you don't agree. It's from women as well as men unfortunately. They don't seem to understand that behaving in this way makes me even less likely to vote for them as I don't think you can create a better world by bossing people around and abusing them. We know that they aren't into cooperation, at a national level anyway, they just want to do it their way. I was pleased JC was elected as leader initially but now I'm going right off the whole thing and I think they are jeopardising future elections because they won't support PR.

I'm not saying that Labour misogyny is ok- it's not. It's just not unique.

…it's just the left wing misogynism gets picked up on more by the press. E.g. I only learnt about Phillip Sodding Davies on here, and most people I know in RL had never heard of him. Despite him being a despicable misogynist, racist, homophobe and ablist to boot.

It's not just Labour women getting attacked though.

I was reading the Times in waitrose whilst having my free coffee (get me and my middle classless) and there were Tory female MP's talking about the threats they received. Tried looking for it online but can't find it…

It's misogynism wherever it comes from. It's from the left AND the right. It's everywhere- it's not a 'hard left' or 'hard right' problem it is a massive problem full stop.

*"been writing" engage bloody brain woman

I wonder what's next - saying JC's supporters have a problem with antisemitism and misogyny seems to have done bog all apart from result in Chakrabarti's peerage.

JC doesn't care, although if accusations of misogyny affected his popularity he might lurch into action.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious, wouldn't it?

"being written"

I think liberal centrist politics has plenty misogyny too (and the right obvs) but the hard left seem to really dislike women. It feels like they'll be around for a bit so would be good to work out what to do about it, whether by reaching out to young women and/or other means.

This is, I believe, a thing on the hard left.

Nick Cohen wrote about this very subject back in October:

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/01/good-and-brave-labour-mps-should-be-defended

"The Daily Mail might have compiled the far left’s hitlist of Labour MPs. Seven of its apparent deselection targets are women...Most are young by the standards of politicians and nasty old men have always enjoyed humiliating young women with ideas of their own."

Actually Nick's been written about this for ages September 2015 If you are a woman, you face misogyny. Kate Godfrey, the centrist Labour candidate in Stafford, told the Times she had received death threats and pornographic hate mail after challenging her local left. If you are a man, you are condemned in language not heard since the fall of Marxist Leninism.

Also more in his book What's Left. (I am not Nick's agent )

I don't have much insight into why this is, but I guess domestic matters would be a distraction from the serious business of creating a new revolution. Also fascinated/horrified with use of word "Zionist" among the hard left, used with incredible frequency as term of abuse with meaning "Jew", particularly on Twitter.

It's crazy. How can he and his followers expect loyalty given his track record. I also think female Labour MPs get a lot more abuse than their male counterparts.

I've been wondering whether part of the issue is women's instinct to co-operate and compromise at a time when the Labour Party is feeling confident and aggressive and doesn't want to compromise. I think men are keen to exploit weaknesses (of the government) and frankly are letting Opposition at all costs blind them to even the merits of some of the issues. I think women are more pragmatic and more inclined to seek out compromise and consensus.

But I think that so-called 'hard left' is held up to higher standards than the rest of British culture

Yes it's scrutinised more as the left are seen as "right on" so it comes across as more hypocritical. I think misogyny is a problem in all areas of politics tbh, and these mps did openly criticise their leader during a time when the party should've been pulling together. And I say this as a fan of stella creasy.

Walking that doesn't surprise me.

Sorry that reads like Creasy has been sacked , I know she hasnt! but my point is in the current labour party you can do things that are socialist in my view but if you dont follow the script you are in a lot of troubke. I am sorry but those twats are now very important people in the Labour party. All over my constituency.

Sorry but I am laughing at the thought that corbyn has introduced alternative views into the labour party. There are no alternative views. There is a mantra and that must be followed. Those who dont follow rhe mantra are sacked. Even when they have acted heroically in a way that changes the social order in favour of a minority group ( abortion) . I think people have no idea how momentum operate

let's put this in perspective.

According to the Times one activists group in South Tyneside compiled a list. One group of obviously misogynistic, marginal idiots.

In any organisation you get twats. The Times just decided to publish what the twats have been doing.

I joined my local labour party and we've got a traditional Labour MP. The only things I've heard about women is how great it is that there are so many women MP's! Stella Creasy is great and no-one with a brain cell would seek to get her de selected. I think this story is just the Times trying to damage the Labour party, business as usual.

On radio 4 yesterday they stated that corbyn voted against the labour government over 600 x.
I am starting to regret voting for him as he is bolstered now.
He is clearly pro brexit, not particularly interested in women's rights and the treatment of Luciana smells bad at least.
He needs to clamp down on anti semitism anyway.

I haven't read Harriet Harman's new book but I'm sure it's very revealing on this issue. Also planning to read Jess's when I get the chance. (Currently in Servants of the People by Andrew Rawnsley, fascinating)

I'm just not convinced that there is a particular realproblem with what people persist in calling 'the hard left' in Britain, aka normal and everyday social democracy on parts of the continent. The way men talk about Jess Philips, yes. The way the media zooms in on Theresa May's clothing, yes. The minute focus on image and behaviour for every woman, yes. But I think that so-called 'hard left' is held up to higher standards than the rest of British culture.

It's not purely about misogyny, but it's massively influenced by it. The whole tone taken towards women is harsher. Look at the way left men talk about Jess Philips.