Ms Sheila Michaels: Feminist who popularised 'Ms', dies aged 78

Agist and sexist!

Well the equivalent of "Mrs" in languages other than English still is.

Mrs used to be used for all older women, like the unmarried Mrs Patmore the cook in Downton Abbey.

Thanks both, good to know! There's definitely no gain to me selecting Admiral etc. other than making our postie chuckle.

No legal status. If you are using a fake title to try to con people into dealing with you and parting with money ( fake academic or medical or nobility titles) that is another matter.

My husband managed to use "Ms" when applying online for a new online E111 card and the system wouldn't let him change it. The card itself has no title and no sex or gender indicator.

As far as I am aware, there are no legal implications for using the 'wrong' title - certainly wouldn't worry about fraud. Fraud being a species of 'theft' there are certain factors that need to be present before you would be committing any theft - there must be some property involved, that property must belong to another, there must be an intention to permanently deprive, must be some appropriation and lastly dishonesty. All need to be present for there to be any fraud.

I a Dr by qualification but it wouldn't bother me if other women selected it on forms as a protest against the nonsense of sex-marked titles.

There's a big difference between doing that and (for instance) using a title to gain false professional advantage, like a certain poo-obsessed tv "Dr" used to do.

Dr is a title that people work hard to get the qualifications for, so I wouldn't use it, because I haven't been through that slog, and it seems disrespectful to my friends and others who have.

Hit post too soon.

...or do they have a legal status in determining identity so I could be technically committing fraud to deliberately select a "wrong" one??

Does anyone know if titles have a legal status under any UK law?

I use Dr when I have to use a title, not because I want to trumpet my qualifications, but because I prefer a title that indicates neither sex nor marital status. When a form doesn't offer Dr, I'll select Ms. When it doesn't even offer Ms, I sometimes select Mr rather than be forced into Miss or Mrs. And once I selected Admiral on a form that inexplicably had nobility and military titles but not Dr or Ms

But I wonder - is it legal for me to do so? Are titles just optional social markers or do they

It's seen as being polite not to call somebody by their first name.

Although I think that may be dying out now.

My mother's generation were very put out if someone called about them by their first name. It was considered rude and over familiar.

But when you look at it, there's no reason for that.

I question why we need a title at all.

Does it matter whether we are Mr, Ms Miss etc.

Why is our gender or sex important? Can;t we just have a name?

You can be Ms, Miss or Mrs. They're all abbreviations of mistress, and there's no law saying you must use one rather than the other.

As I've got older, people have started assuming I'm Mrs rather than Miss. They rarely seem to take Ms as the default, and even less rarely offer my preference option of no title.

Of course you can keep MS but for me I can't change to MRS so for me I can only use MS or pretend to be married

If you are not married then only grown up is a MS

If I was married I'd still be Ms. Why wouldn't I be? My hypothetical husband would have taken my surname but he'd still be Mr as he was before.

I use Ms because only other option is Miss that's for little girls! If you are not married then only grown up is a MS

I was very surprised at the optician today to have been addressed as Mrs, as it's a title I've never used. I did correct them, but I don't think they corrected it on my forms. I have to go back soon, and didn't have the energy to argue the point.

The odd thing was that the optician introduced himself as Jeremy rather than Mr Smith (actually, I've no idea what his surname is, as it turns out.)

I'd rather not use any title, but if I must, as many online forms insist, I prefer to be Ms, or Miss at a pinch. Not Mrs. That's my mother.

I don't care whether I'm Ms or Miss. I have a number of bank accounts and they vary between the 2 as I'm inconsistent in their use. I hate "Mrs"

I don't think "Miss" implies one is unmarried. I know plenty of married women who use Miss.

Even if married there's no reason for a woman not to be "Ms", not even in the circumstances a woman changes her surname to the man's. There's no male equivalent of "Miss" or "Mrs" and the titles are grounded in patriarchy.

That's interesting geekaMaxima. I think maybe there's a perceived link with being 'old' and 'young'. With Miss you're perceived as young and beautiful (and maybe it's really important for some women to identify themselves as such), Mrs, an old married lady (but worthy of a husband) and Ms, well you're just on the shelf... It's so silly. I think Ms should be a default term, unless someone specifically asks for it to be changed. Fewer people are getting married, so why do we still define ourselves by whether we managed to bag a DH or not?

Doctors, dentists, professors and so on must be "hiding their married status" too.

Not to mention plenty of women marry and don't change their surnames anyway.

So are all men "hiding their married status" then?

I HATE the use of Ms, I don't feel that women should hide their married status, to me it feels almost as if you are admitting married women couldn't do the job.

*this is totally my own view and I realise it may conflict strongly with others but it is my view.

That's unfortunate geekaMaxima. A fair few teachers at my school are "Ms" although unfortunately "Miss" and "Mrs" are more common when combined (I find it a shame this is being further enforced amongst younger girls). My friends and I will certainly all be using "Ms" - I hope most girls will do but fear they won't (it's not something I've had conversations with a huge number about!). I do think a fair number of women use "Ms" now, I read it quite often in articles etc, but it's disheartening so many undergraduates aren't where you lecture.

Wawawaa indeed, my cards (both of them) say "Miss" and I'm waiting until I'm 18 to get them changed to "Ms" as I'm not sure if "Miss" is actually correct when under 18 but have been told in the past it is. I've read of women having all sorts of problems with banks on this - persistently being ascribed the title "Miss", banks refusing to accept women not changing their surnames upon marriage and addressing correspondence to "Mr and Mrs X", it's ridiculous. In my opinion there's no reason for any title other than "Ms" to exist for women - men only have "Mr" after all. I will be incredibly frustrated if I keep being called "Miss" after I tell them to change it but I fear I will be.