I'm fucking sick of male violence

This little boys mum decided to let a violent thug into her sons life. He beat him for being sick in a taxi. Not every man no matter how high his testosterone is would beat a little child. I am sick of apologists for these thugs and the mothers that let them into their children's life's.

But it also means that most people have s shockingly low opinion of males which is great

Does it ? I've just phoned up my mummy to see what she thought and she's told me not to worry about 'people' on FB which is great.

Oops sorry for the typos - I was texting my friend at the same time!!🤗🤗

Dead I quite agree!! But it also means that most people have s shockingly low opinion of males which is great - the more men see that people see they are shite, the more they might be inclined to do something about it!! She

I first saw this story on Facebook. As shocking as the story is, I was more horrified by the comments. Of about thirty comments on the article, about half blamed the poor child's mother. Comments like, where was his mother, women need to be more careful who they have around their kids, etc etc. A couple of people even questioned why a female witness who heard the man shouting hadn't intervened. There was also a male witness but no one mentioned him. It sickened me that so many people were desperate to put the blame on a woman, instead of where it belonged, on the man that killed him. Unbelievable really.

OlennasWimple that's so funny, I was just thinking of news about college and pro American football players rejecting domestic violence, the outcry from some sportsmen before the US presidential election when bad behaviour was put down to 'locker room talk' etc.

Unfortunately when you do a sort of general google about it most of the items are about the connection between dv and sport and how it is more of a contributor than a solution to the whole machismo thing.

But it does seem to be changing. I guess that's the college in college football. Education is good for men and women.

MistressDeeCee yes, that old chestnut 'Not all men'. Red herring, making it all about The Nice Guy.

I hate that male violence against women and children isn't admitted to be the massive problem that it is. I read a thread on the dreaded FB recently about domestic violence. Men landed to ejaculate all over the thread "MEN suffer violence too, you know!" Yes we know they do but the lecturing and shutting down of womens' voices was awful. So men get to dictate how when where women speak too? I saw a post somewhere or other "what would you do if there were no men around"..replies in the vein of going for a solo walk or cycle on a hot night, wear wtf you like no catcalls and "she was asking for it" etc. I barely watch or read the news these days it makes my head whirl

Really, I keep reading their accounts of why they're entitled to compete in women's sports claiming lower (and some cases, zero) testosterone levels than women.

Either way, testosterone levels are generally lower than other men, yet they are still as violent.

Betsy - I thought MTT still had higher testosterone levels than most women, though (which is one of the problems with the athletics guidelines about acceptable levels)?

Good questions about testosterone, user. I've seen lots of anecdote about men who take T suppressors feeling less aggressive, and women who have supplemented feeling more aggressive, but it would be interesting if any proper studies have been completed. I must follow up and see what is happening to the NFL campaign in the US against domestic violence too - it might be a model that other sports organisations could adopt

The Swedish study that shows MTT retain male patterns of criminality and violence, also says "female-to-males had higher crime rates than female controls (aHR 4.1; 95% CI 2.5–6.9) but did not differ from male controls. This indicates a shift to a male pattern regarding criminality and that sex reassignment is coupled to increased crime rate in female-to-males. The same was true regarding violent crime."

I draw from that, that men can reduce testosterone and still be as violent, yet women (trying to become men) can increase testosterone and become more violent. Seems to be more of an entitlement and socialisation problem than hormonal.

(Btw that was a reply to Magicpaintbrush.)

I know this gets trotted out a lot but what are the actual medical connections between T and violence? Are you likely to be more violent if you have more T than normal? What about violent women? Do they have higher T levels? And what about placebos (ie if people think they're getting T do they show/feel more aggression)? I ask because I genuinely don't know.

There is a connection between thyroid hormone (t3) and violence, and offenders in prison are more likely to have higher levels. When my t3 levels were too high I was more reactive, but I didn't beat anyone up.

We do treat people who have medical problems (hyperthyroidism, drug/alcohol misuse, mental health etc) that can make them violent. Normalisation of male violence means we don't see it as a problem or we see it as unsolvable. What you're saying is a bit like saying, well, if you feel violent you just feel violent, what can be done?

I think one thing that can be done is to change the emotional culture, to say that macho posturing (aka the partriarchy) is not acceptable and hurts everyone, men included. And men, including sportsmen and other men who earn a living 'being manly' and doing manly things, need to be a part of it. Both young men and women need to see adult men who value, support and respect women, who are gentle and reasonable, who see women as equal social partners etc.

I'd like to see brewers, pubs and football clubs (sport in general really) active in encouraging a less aggressive culture and rejecting the idea that drinking and sport have violence baked into them.

I'd like to see children raised with feminist ideals, being encouraged to support each other and reject the ugliness older people take for granted. That's a way forward.

Fwiw I have taken T on scrip in the past and saw no changes whatsoever. More's the pity, as I had hoped it would give me more energy and improve my libido.

Or here in the notoriously deprived Chiswick (attacker never caught): www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/chiswick-assault-woman-19-shoved-to-ground-and-repeatedly-punched-in-random-attack-a3429646.html

To escape male violence all we have to do is move to a leafy suburb.

Great news for us all. Proven to work here in the affluent south west London Borough of Richmond Upon Thames (in another case which received no coverage behind their local news site, only a 15 year old girl on her way back from school being followed and dragged behind a bush to be sexually assaulted): www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/15339336.Mother_speaks_out_about_sex_attacker_who_assaulted_her__brave__daughter_after_getting_off_Twickenham_bus/?ref=mrb&lp=3

I couldn't agree more with all of the threads above. It's something that has bothered me for a long time, as I've always felt that a lot of the violence in the world - war, terrorism in addition to domestic violence - have their roots in male violence and macho posturing.

I honestly can't think how it would be possible to globally change the mind-set and violent predilections of millions of men though. I know part of it will be the background they have been raised in, but for others it just seems ingrained even if they come from a background where thy have had good role models and they have just turned out that way.

It is simplistic but I do think a lot of men's aggressive behaviour literally boils down to testosterone. They have loads of it, we women only have the tiniest fraction that they do. I've read in the past about women who had to take testosterone for medical reasons and how dramatically it changed their personalities, making them more aggressive and sexualised (this is from interviews from some women only). I don't know how you would begin to tackle that in men.

You appear to live quite an awful existence where a violent response from men might be on the cards at any time. Do you live in a 'deprived' area ?

I think you've got something there Cad. To escape male violence all we have to do is move to a leafy suburb.

Genius.

Dervel

I am without question a seriously odd person, so guilty as charged. However no I don't go into every interaction.........

Mmm...that old slight of hand, enter a plea of guilty and then deny and defend against the charge in mitigation. So not guilty as charged then.

I explain that to people they usually don't get it.

I'd definitely been in that particular category. Whilst I don't think that its that unusually to be helping people as you describe - certainly I've been and done that (as it were), and I would feel awful if they weren't OK in the end. I don't think I'd be having anything akin to a neurosis about it.

However my point still stands being a non-violent man in a world with too many violent ones confers tremendous social advantage, especially with women.

You appear to live quite an awful existence where a violent response from men might be on the cards at any time. Do you live in a 'deprived' area ?

Exactly. And a permissive attitude towards casual sexism is not a neutral position.

So either get on board and help or accept that you are perpetuating the problem.

Will all sexiest men turn violent? No. Will all violent men be sexist? Yes

This, in a nutshell, is it. Absolutely and completely. Men who have no respect for women are part of the problem, even if they're not violent themselves. Permissive attitudes towards casual sexism make it ok for abusers to abuse.

Delurking after many years because male violence, and society's refusal to acknowledge its all pervasiveness, is an issue that I've been thinking about lots recently. For example, here (I live overseas) there is a strong rugby culture. It's typically seen as a 'good thing' and so no one wants to acknowledge the link between match nights and surges in domestic violence. But when home teams lose unexpectedly the research shows that more women and children get battered.

In response to the question how do we fix the problem, is the first step to persuade wider society (men) the problem actually exists? Maybe a Twitter/media campaign where every single act of male violence is called out as exactly that. #MaleViolence or similar - a sort of consciousness raising about the single common denominator in all of these horrible acts. Because until the common cause is acknowledged (by men) I don't see how, as a society, we can begin to fix it?

Slarti

There's not a woman on here who doesn't understand what you're saying. Of course you are not a violent child abuser.

No one is blaming you, personally or specifically for the horrorific things that some men do.

But men being violent to women is a logical extension of casual sexism. Women know this down to their very soul.

Will all sexiest men turn violent? No. Will all violent men be sexist? Yes.

Sexism is how it starts. And most men, however lovely, will be on the sexist 'spectrum'. It's ingrained. Male socialisation.

It's as ingrained as it is for lone women who get into a lift with a man and will quite subconsciously, just check him out. A radar sweep that takes less than a nanosecond while they are pressing the button.

We have no way of telling what kind of man he is. And often the radar sweep will deceive us. But we do it anyway. It's ingrained. Female socialisation.

So you can distance yourself from 'those men' of course. But it doesn't help. Having hurt feelings about the possibility of being mistaken for one of those men, doesn't help. Asking women to respect that, doesn't help.

So, don't help. But don't expect to be forgiven for that and made to feel better about your feelings.

This is a thread about male violence and how to stop it.

Can you help?