Girls only schools

...Is it better for society that my feminist daughter goes to a mixed school and shows any sexist people they are fools?

Unfortunately this works in the same way as "I'll send my wonderful, clever, charming mixed-race DS to a school full of white thugs. That'll show them!"

My posts were about my own school and what I've heard and read of mixed schools. If your daughter went to a mixed school and was able to challenge and defeat sexist attitudes that'd be fantastic.

I'm not sure Stonewall posters are a good thing from what I know of some of their stances these days. The cake related poster at the girls' school sounds a light hearted and enjoyable way to encourage more younger girls to explore and play chess.

All else being equal, if I had a daughter, I'd like her to go to an all-girls secondary.

I was in single sex education from 13 - before that was mixed. Comprehensive.

I still saw boys on the school bus, at swimming club, at Young Farmers and just hanging out round town.

Various activities - some drama, music, language exchanges - were shared with the boys' school and I had half my A-level classes at the boys' school (that depended on subjects.) But mostly, we could just get on with education. Like the stats, we had good percentages doing STEM subjects and sports.

I listen to The Life Scientific on Radio 4, and it's struck me that a lot of the women interviewed went to single sex schools. Some of that is age - women at the top of their careers will be older, and therefore more likely to have been in a grammar school before uni, which would have been more likely to be single sex. Plus I notice it because of my own schooling and being involved with STEM promotion at work. But even so, it still seems like more than I'd expect.

Of course, things aren't all equal, and it'd be better to go to a good mixed school than a poor single sex one, and children all have different needs and preferences, so what's right for one won't be right for another. But my preference is still single sex secondary education for girls.

No, you're right, it's not about being positive or negative. But it is about communication. I think girls are brought up from a young age to communicate from the back foot. And to defer to men and their opinions. And to be polite at all costs.

So only negative women get mansplained at, because they're on the defensive and lack communication skills? Right.

Going to a single sex school doesn't mean you don't have relationships with people from the other sex. I have a number of friends who are boys as do all the girls I know.

I'm glad you've not been held back for being a girl or woman but many girls and women are. I have fantastic, supportive parents but that doesn't prevent me suffering from the misogyny which is inherent in society - something you've experienced yourself.

I went to a mixed boarding school and nobody mansplained around me. In fact I'd say the girls had the edge on maturity and additionally (or subsequently?), academics. I came and left without ever feeling once that boys had any more authority on anything than girls. Nobody's ever tried to mansplain at me as an adult either but I'm never on the defensive. I learned lots of communication skills with both boys and girls at school. I've never felt less than equal.

I would never deny that women are not treated equal, I see it happening to others all day long. I have been whistled at and had my ass slapped by strangers in a crowd. But in my life I've never been held back by being a girl or a woman. And I attribute that to positive parents and great relationships with many boys who were simply friends through my childhood and teens.

I'm anti-segregation at every step of life.

Hah no neither was I .

That doesn't surprise me regarding sport scallops - it can be great for confidence! Another reason why it's so important for girls not to feel held back or that sport isn't for them.

And to be honest I was a pain in the arse to teachers

I can be. It's one of the reasons I'm not going to be on the Head Girls' Team

Oh I had a great time! And thrived. It was one particularly difficult year. Bizarrely (whilst we're talking about the other thread) I found a sport at around the same time and suddenly my confidence blossomed.

Bullying was the exception rather than the norm, definitely. And to be honest I was a pain in the arse to teachers and they still supported me at that time. I hope my experience wasn't the exception in girl schools.

My experience with single sex schooling was very positive. There were no gender boundaries on subjects and a real sense of support and community.

Yes, there was bitching and bullying but that happens in all schools. There was also a sense of empowerment. No one telling us we couldn't participate in things because there weren't perceived as feminine. The majority of the girls in my year have turned in to very strong, well educated, well rounded women with great careers.

Personally I don't think I'd have done so well in my life so far in a mixed setting.

My brother also went to a single sex school. Total opposite. Very much a lads club, banter banter, mans world, women in the kitchen. And while he isn't now, there were times growing up where I had to tell him to give his head a wobble. While I'll leave the option open for my DS to attend single sex, I won't encourage it.

If I go on to have a DD it might be a different story. Although, my closest grammars are single sex so would give them the same opportunity if they chose to do their 11+

Most girls schools are either grammar or independent schools, aren't they? I wonder if the confidence girls receive is a result of being in selective education, that is knowing or being told they are best, rather than a result of not being around boys?

I don't think it's just that. Growing up, my friends were at all-girl comprehensives (still common in London, and pretty much the norm when I went to school).

I remember the girls at Newnham being particularly studious and confident - and statistically speaking Newnham was slightly easier to get into (since it didn't admit boys). I appreciate that this might have been an admissions bias - but I don't think so.

At my girls school if people were bullied they moved classes, to a nicer group of girls and they found friends there. Yes there were bitchy girls, but you just had to find your group. I went co-ed
later and there were genuine loners there because boys just left them out. Girls never leave anyone out (apart from when they're bullying them obviously, but as I said, where I was this got resolved). Ime anyway!

At the coed girls could do maths, physics, sciences etc but classes dominated by boys. Socially it was quite bad - the usual double standards etc when it came to relationships and if you weren't "hot" you were basically invisible and kind of viewed as "what's the point of you?".

If she likes the all girls I would go with that.

I'm glad it was sorted out scallops and hope you were able to thrive in your time there after it was!

As you say there, bullying can happen at any school. I think it's due to the misogyny inherent in society and consequent derision of teenage girls that it's highlighted if it happens amongst girls, with all sorts of slurs aimed at them and people describing it as normal, as has even been done in this thread. When boys bully someone at school it's just bullying.

It's also far from inevitable. As I said I've never been aware of any bullying taking place at my school and I know people who aren't in the same "friendship groups" support one another and look out for one another, across year groups as well. It's a very supportive and kind environment.

Yy NoLove.

Another advocate of all girls schools here too. I did get bullied for a while but believe me when I say it was nothing compared to the bullying DH had at a mixed school. The teachers also sorted it out pretty smartly once they were aware of it. It wasn't bitchy or subtle either.

Another thread on this board has just reminded me of another way in which girls' schools are excellent - sport. The take up of sport at girls' schools is far higher than amongst girls at mixed I think, with such a variation available and girls feeling able to explore what they like and throw themselves into sports. Though of course far from all girls are sporting, I think far more feel comfortable playing sport and there are so many teams in various sports across all year groups.

The other girls were total bitches but there were no limitations imposed on me and that has stood me in very good stead.

This is, in a nutshell, why I think girls' schools are better.

I was mercilessly bullied by boys in a coed school, who were only sometimes supported by the occasional girl.

At a girls' school, there's going to be about double the amount of female bullies, but for me, that'd still have resulted in less bullying.
(And I am pretty sure I would have been spared the sexual harrassment element in an all girls school)

It is irrational to assume that girls are worse than boys. Or that the all girls environment makes them worse.

It is just that if you aren't pushed around and have bubble gum smeared into your hair by boys, then you might more notice the fact that you're never invited to girls' birthday parties and they make nasty comments on your clothes.

I went to a girls school and I'd say it was one of the most positive influences of my life. I didn't like the school but no one ever taught me I couldn't do anything because of my sex and I left there knowing the sky was the limit. It was a truly shocking contrast to the overt and subtle sexism of university and the world of work. I have bounced back, but I'm not sure I would have done if I hadn't been educated during my most formative years in an environment which really recognised and valued me and my skills for what they were. The other girls were total bitches but there were no limitations imposed on me and that has stood me in very good stead.

Very much depends on the child.

Dd1 went to Catholic girls Grammar School. She didn't excel at first, but the school empowered her and eventually encouraged her to apply for medicine.

She herself said she knows she wouldn't have concentrated as much in mixed environment.

Dd2 also passed Grammar School entrance exam but hated being in an all girls school and left in June of Y7. She is happier now in a mixed comp.

green

What kind of stories?

As an adult I have to say I get on better with men but I do remember alot of mucking about by boys in school and the constant who fancies who and the being asked outburst so they can dump you seconds later and it pretty much just being accepted that's how boys were and little done about it.

You didn't post that your son liked a mixed sex school, but choose to do it when your daughter was brought by you to a same sex school?

Where is the dilemma? Your daughter likes one school and your son likes another.

None of my family had any option of an all girls or all boys school, at least those growing up since the 1950s. However if the experiences of my mum and others of her generation who went to girls schools and those I have known who have been to them, they have been very positive.

I wish we had single sex schools here

Boy and girls are different - they mature differently - have different hobbies and interests

Why should we be expected to 'be the same' which usually means girls conforming to the way boys do things?

I was at an all girls school and I never noticed the lack of boys - DD is in mixed and the stories she tells are shocking

I went to an all-girls secondary school, and it was truly awful. Bitchy, horrid girls. We had woodwork, sewing and cookery, so bit of a mixture there in terms on lessons, but it was really just terrible. There was an all-boys school next door, so maybe that made it worse? Or just a generally bad school haha.

As soon as I went to my mixed sixth form everything felt so much better, more friends, less bitchiness. My friend who went to both schools with me agreed it was so much better with boys as well as girls.