Girls only schools

Before dd started secondary the single sex aspect was a bit of a negative in my mind. I was aware of the research about stem and girls schools, but dismissed it as relevant to dd individually because of her own personality.

Two years later I see it as a complete positive. I still believe that in a co-ed dd would be loudly refusing to bow to any peer pressure that stem, or football, or anything else was for boys. But at her school the difference is that none of her friends or fellow pupils are either, which is a far more positive environment.

I think too it has opened up areas and opinions between the girls that wouldn't be as easy or natural in a mixed environment.

I do see why for some the lack of socialising with males might cause problems, but in dd's case as well as the fact they do joint activities with the boys, she has male friends and mixed activities outside school.

Sorry stickle i.must have mis read

I'm actually finding this thread fascinating I was originally against all girls schools because of the socialization issue and learning to live amongst each other and to deal with the alternate ways of thinking

Now I'm wondering if the only "positive" side of co ed is that you basically learn your place and to put up or shut up alot sooner.

Giles

Sorry, I think my post wasn't very clear and made it sound like my DD had left school and struggled. Actually my DDs are still at their girls' school.

I was replying to BertrandRussell who said that her DD did struggle to socialise with men after school. Bertrand I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Giles's question too!

I meant to say that I predict that DD1 will struggle socially with boys when she leaves. She finds socialising difficult in general and won't have much experience of being around boys (beyond clubs, job, family etc). DD2's personality means that she will be fine I think. DD1 is thriving at the moment though, very confident and happy. Accepted for who she is. I hope that she will find it easier to deal with the good and bad sides of socialising with men when she's a bit older, is out the other side of puberty and has a few more years' maturity. I'm glad she doesn't have to do it now and is protected from daily sexual harassment at school (which was my experience).

Other than this niggling worry, I thank my lucky stars every day that my DDs have the good fortune to be able to go to a girls' school. They are sporty, scientific (which I wouldn't have predicted), confident, have diverse role models and see their lives as full of potential.

stickle

Can I be a pain and ask why it was difficult to mix after.

I'm kinda wondering if it's because boys were generally some kind of alien species or was it because after years of speaking to and being spoken to by equals it was hard to find your place amongst people used to dealing with people who knew the "rules"

Bertrand difficulty mixing later on is my only slight misgiving re. my own girls school DDs. I suspect that one DD might struggle a bit.

I'm hoping that she'll be able to struggle with some robustness as a near-adult though. Rather than dealing with an onslaught of sexual harassment as a young teen whilst trying to study and navigate adolescence - the worst case scenario in a mixed school. Those experiences in a co-ed school held me back for years.

I dunno. So many variables. It really does depend on the school I guess. And the child.

Worm mixed toilets?? That sounds awful. Apart from anything else, at my mixed school the girls toilets had a cloakroom attached and it was our refuge from some of the boys.

Oh and my friends who went to mixed school tended to get sexually involved with boys much younger...not great, really.

I went to an girls school and I am only 18 so not too long ago. I wouldn't advise it tbh

I went to an all-girls school and found it great. A convent school although the nuns were a dying breed by then. No boys to distract me during those important exam years-I had a boyfriend but only saw him at the weekend.. I had male friends and boyfriends in college, I really didn't miss out on a thing.

Mainly positive experience from all girls school. The only negative I found was that I found it difficult to relate to males when I entered the work place however I came from a family of only girls (sister and all female cousins) plus my dad worked away a lot and when home there weren't any other male adults etc.
My daughter now goes to (the same) all girls school and it was the best decision. She has so much confidence and freedom to learn without male distraction. She also has 3 brothers at home to balance things out

My daughter has just finished A levels after eight years in a girls' school. She has done really well and had so much fun in a really supportive atmosphere designed around what girls want to do. They have a brother school nearby and do some subjects together.

My daughter has just finished A levels after eight years in a girls' school. She has done really well and had so much fun in a really supportive atmosphere designed around what girls want to do. They have a brother school nearby and do some subjects together.

Bertrand I do think it depends on the school and particularly its leadership. When my eldest joined the school there was a really nice head and a very good, liberal atmosphere in the school which benefited my eldest. The Head was poached away.

A new head came when my 2 other DD's were there and introduced the communal loos (to cut down on violence/incidents supposedly - for whose benefit? boys), strict uniform, lots of petty rules,the crap Lady Gaga type assemblies etc. He also tried to make it into an academy but was defeated by the parents. Rather than make things better the school atmosphere and behaviour got worse and the school went from "outstanding" to "Good with some outstanding features" and is currently falling further behind in results each year.
Girls seem to be used in Co-ed schools to ameliorate against aggressive male behaviour.

oh and the joy of being able to walk into your form room and shout,

"HAS ANYONE GOT ANY SPARE TAMPAX? I'VE JUST COME ON?"

I doubt you could do that in a mixed school!

I went to a girls school. I hated it but that's cos I had issues.

But academically I really noticed the difference when I went into a mixed environment. It can't help but make girls into little feminists…instead of a teacher asking for "6 strong boys" it's "6 strong girls", it's girls getting the equipment out in physics, it's girls doing electronics, there is no question about girls being able to do x and boys y. And then girls notice when they are not in that environment and question it, "why are they now asking for boys to do what I have been doing all along?, why are boys leading the experiments in science and girls standing back?" It was good not to have that hormonal/sexual pressure thing going on. I think we stayed as children for longer, and let us focus on school work. My mates at mixed schools definitely were sexually doing stuff at a younger age than most of us, and more concerned about appearance etc.

I got on well with boys though on a matey level so I did miss that, but no doubt that would have changed with hormones and all that.

My own child is about to go off to a single sex school. I really do think that it is a good thing up until 16.

Blimey, worm- that sounds awful. I suppose a lot of it depends on the school. Certainly one of the things I was hoping for in dd's all girl place was no competition about clothes and makeup and so on was depressingly rife. And the whole populars/plastics/nerds split was just as noticeable as ever. Maybe it was just a crap school.........

Bertrand I've changed my mind the other way. I used to be very pro mixed education. I grew up in Ireland with single sex schools being in the majority ad like another poster upthread there was a very definite way girls were meant to behave and pre-1950's housewife outlook to take towards life. I went to a trendy co-ed and thought that was best. I thought the bias in mixed schooling would be ironed out by changing attitudes but it hasn't.

My DD's all went to co-ed schools and 2 out of the three really wish they had gone to all girl schools. The disruption from boys in class was unremitting and every teacher seemed to have a "tech boy" to help them with the whiteboard etc. Boys ruled the roost. On International Womens Day one year the assembly showed videos of lady gag and held her up as a feminist icon!!! Bullying about looks and taunts of "lesbian" in my DD's faces was also ongoing.Awful PE classes in inappropriate clothes with boys leering/taunting. There were "mixed" loos with an attendant which they hated (how do you clean your braces with communal sinks and no mirrors? What about period accidents). All that on top of the bullying/sniping girls you have to deal with in either school was too much.

I've actually changed my mind on this one over the years. My dd went to an excellent all girls secondary, and the girls all seemed brimming with confidence. But many of them struggled when they moved to a mixed 6th form, and it took them a long time to find their feet. Ds went to a significantly worse co-ed school, and seems to me to have much better social skills and is better at managing people. Obviously, I know that anecdote is not data...........

Interesting article from a (good) few years back:
www.theguardian.com/education/2007/apr/10/schools.uk

Research generally shows that boys do better in mixed sex schools but girls get better results when they go to single sex schools. Back in the 80's I did some academic research on computing/IT as it was being introduced widely into schools at the time. Boys tended to dominate the classes and the teachers enabled it - It is sad that things don't seem to have changed much.

I would go with my gut feeling and also take into account how much your DD favours one school over the other. Will there be logistical difficulties with your DC being a t different schools - different journies, different holiday times etc.

I don't know, Paradise, in that scenario I would probably send my brilliant mixed-race DS to a school with a high proportion of black and mixed-race children!

I don't think there are easy answers - just pointing out the problem with the logic there (that sending a clever, feminist 11 year old into the situation will sort it out). I agree that ideally we would educate everyone together.

Not saying that girls can't thrive in co-ed schools either - I went to co-ed schools and colleges all the way and did well but I did experience sexism and misogyny.

I realize this isn't a hypothetical situation for you though. Difficult one.

nothing your post kinda rings true for me a little.

Except I went to a non religious mixed school. I went from no friends at primary to finally having a few friends except we were a group no one would touch with someone else's barge pole however they were the best friends.

Guys were never interested in me at school not was I interested in them. However they were still a pain In the arse harassing you etc which of course contributed in me spending alot of time thinking if they got the wrong idea it was my fault.thst it was not.to put up with this as no one stopped it.and eventually when I got older like you communicated mainly by flirting and if course putting up with the inevitable consequences you grow up learning is your own fault anyway.

Even now I probably have very little idea of how far is to far as I've never lived without it if that makes sense.

Went to all girls catholic school in Ireland.
Pros:
Girls didn't act like thick twats to impress boys.
Strong humanities results.
Lots of subversive femministy teaching (esp in English dept)
No pressure to tart self up for boys.
Nobody was scared to speak out in class etc. Being smart was a good thing.
Being posh wasn't looked down on either.
Not forced to go out in the cold at lunch/break (I was an undiagnosed asthmatic so appreciated this)

Cons
Sexist religion teaching (but we were free to air our disagreements)
Shocking ignorance of contraception etc due to lack of sex ed
Nasty competitive atmosphere
Low takeup of physics/chem at A-level
Stress which led to friend fallouts

Homophobic bullying
Was only able to relate to boys by flirting with them
Low self-esteem boosted by giving out sexual favours to strangers at parties.
Tendency to get very very drunk on nights out/at said parties in order to let off steam.
Lots of sexist shite from older SLT about acting like "young ladies"

In short, OP, send her to all girls if you think she has the mental strength to cope with it. Read the ethos documents very carefully indeed- religious stuff might have muddied the waters in my school.

I've never noticed any of this at my school. Cake has been advertised with some societies but only in a light-hearted "have some cake" manner. I concur on the stereotyping but I've never noticed or heard of anything like that at girls' schools - the complete opposite. Science is a big thing at mine and the uptake of all the sciences at A Level is high. My experience of a girls' school is the complete lack of this kind of stereotyping and girls being free to explore all interests and talents.

A small point perhaps but it's single sex schools not gender. In an ideal world there'd be no need for single sex schools and I hope to see the day there is no point in them because misogyny isn't rife.