Girls only schools

Gah, clicky link: here

Of course boys aren't evil (I have one myself - he is delightful and thoughful and caring). But there is a wealth of psychological evidence ([https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=P77CasYh2w0C&pg=PA265&lpg=PA265&dq=teachers+spend+more+time+on+boys&source=bl&ots=qs4HJokhkf&sig=uAfpiRmljiO2rtq9cdS4l2YePvo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjU9obW84rVAhWeHsAKHSnyBS0Q6AEIRDAH#v=onepage&q=teachers%20spend%20more%20time%20on%20boys&f=false "look inside"]] for Handbook of Psychology: Educational Psychology on Amazon with copious references to the peer-reviewed literature) showing teachers are socially conditioned to spend more time on and pay more attention to the boys, and boys are socially conditioned to play up to the cultural stereotype of the "naughty boy who messes around".

In a perfect school teachers would be aware of this stuff and have classroom strategies to mitigate and compensate for sex-stereotyping, and would have robust anti-bullying policies to make sure that any sort of bullying, but particularly (in secondary schools/upper years of primary school) that sexual bullying, harrassment and assault is dealt with really robustly and rapidly. That's definitely the sort of school I'll be looking for for DS. (If I had a DD I'd be pulling out all the stops to get her into the extremely good girls only school though).

To be fair Green Tulips, the most disruptive students at my school were girls for the most part ... Mind you, we never had behaviour points in them days or computers, mobile phones, selfies and social media. I also experienced a lot of bullying from girls (and boys). A big part of the environment was about impressing the boys. But I also heard some horror stories from all-girls schools, especially those that were wealthier. I can't help thinking that there are so many factors at play here including whether the school is publicly or privately funded, is religious and whether it is specialist in any way, as well as the sheer dumb luck factor of happening to have a cache of good teachers (or not). I know a lot of good teachers have recently run a mile from teaching for a whole range of reasons including pay and conditions, fatigue, parents' expectations, staff room bullying and the fact that (and I have heard this from teachers) so many kids do play up and are disruptive to the point of violence and there is very little recourse teachers have to do anything about this.

Boys are not evil creatures to be avoided at all costs.

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that boys are evil creatures to be avoided at all costs! It's about giving girls an academic boost in life and shielding them from the well-documented phenomenon of sexual harassment. Other people will choose mixed for their DDs for many different good reasons.

Honestly, I am less concerned about my son's academic education than my daughters'. He is motivated and reasonably bright. By default and with far less effort, he is likely to whizz through life with way more opportunities available to him than my DDs. Picking up speed as an adult when/if the DDs start having babies.

I'd be happy to send him to a slightly-less-beneficial-for-boys SS school if this meant that a SS education was available for all local girls who wanted one.

If that's the case - why do my girls complain about the boys behaviour in school during lessons? And why does my son have the most behaviour points (relatively low compared to most of the boys 14 v 187)

Are boys excluded more? Are they picked up more? Are teachers proving a point?

Boys are not evil creatures to be avoided at all costs. It really annoys me that these threads always imply that boys are all sexist pigs or mess about and will ruin a girls education.

I picked my dds mixed sex school BECAUSE I was so impressed with the boys They were polite and articulate. They mixed well with the girls. It felt very natural and a fun place to learn. I want my dd to grow up thinking that she can be equal to boys but be friends with them too Separating them won't achieve this properly. And what does it teach her brother? That girls must be removed from him to learn.

It's my job to teach him to be a good man That's what I intend to do.

I mean, it's lucky, isn't it, that there are so many parents less concerned about their daughters' education than you are, who are prepared to send them to a mixed school, so your boys can benefit from their presence

Was that meant to be sarcastic? I expect the parents of girls at my son's co-ed fee paying school cared given they chose it over a single sex school. If I had had a daughter it is the school I would have chosen for her.

I mean, it's lucky, isn't it, that there are so many parents less concerned about their daughters' education than you are, who are prepared to send them to a mixed school, so your boys can benefit from their presence

I actually take some umbrage about the embedded assumptions that single-sex schools are necessarily better and that parents who send their daughters to mixed-sex schools are not concerned about their education. Sure, some SS schools are wonderful for girls (but I know that not all are) and many girls will flourish in SS education ... but this is not to say that mixed-sex is necessarily bad / worse or something parents resort to because they don't care about their daughters' education.

I went mixed. The alternative was a convent school which I don't think would have suited me and which was probably more regressive than feminist. Also, whereas I am thinking of applying as a mature-age student at NoLove's school because it sounds so wonderful, I don't think that my mixed-sex education was bad. It was in what would be called now a deprived school, but the teachers were excellent, they defended my educational aims (for the most part), I met some wonderful people and I certainly was not spoon-fed, making me more independent and resilient at university than many others there who had gone to more salubrious schools (those that teach to exams so their image looks good). It suited me at the time and I don't regret it. There were instances of sexism, but I learned how to deal with them and I also learned a lot of proto-feminism there in response to some of the situations I encountered. I'm not saying mixed is better, just that it isn't all bad.

I mean, it's lucky, isn't it, that there are so many parents less concerned about their daughters' education than you are, who are prepared to send them to a mixed school, so your boys can benefit from their presence?

Many people aren't the slightest bit interested in raising their daughters (or sons) as feminists. In fact, quite the opposite.

Many people don't agree that single sex schools are good. As evidenced by this thead.

Many people actively want their children to mix with members of the opposite sex, for a variety of reasons.

If you asked the parents of daughters who are being sent to a mixed school why they were so 'unconcerned about their daughter's education', most of them wouldn't know what you were talking about. And if you explained many would disagree.

When you are trying to choose a school for your child, there are a zillion things to take into account. Only one of which will be whether it is mixed. And everyone's priorities are completely different. Location is more important to some people. Or whether they offer the IB. Whether the school is sporty, or has a strong drama/music department.

I mean, it's lucky, isn't it, that there are so many parents less concerned about their daughters' education than you are, who are prepared to send them to a mixed school, so your boys can benefit from their presence?

Well, can you blame people for doing this?
They want the best for their children, and if all feminists sent their sons to single-sex schools, then girls at coed schools would only have the sons of non-feminists for company, which would be even worse.

As long as mixed schools exist, boys will be sent there. One could argue that parents should campaign for a guaranteed place in a single sex school for every girl. But nothing will be achieved by just not sending you son there. Someone else will send their son there, anyway.

What do they want us to say in response to it, I always wonder...

I think they want us to agree with them about what horrible bitches girls are, how awful teenage girls are, how girls just hate one another and are so vicious and evil!

Unfortunately for them, girls' schools are full of support, inspiration, love and friendship.

Considering stats claim generally girls do better academically than boys I don't see how the argument for single sex for girls holds up. Girls are achieving over boys in mixed sex schools too. If anything it's the boys that are suffering.

It's always interesting on these threads how many parents, having read the papers, decide on single sex for their daughters; co-ed for their sons.

I mean, it's lucky, isn't it, that there are so many parents less concerned about their daughters' education than you are, who are prepared to send them to a mixed school, so your boys can benefit from their presence?

I went to an all girls school, was heavily involved in the Girl Guides, and had a single mum, with three sisters, and a strong grandmother.

I went to university thinking feminism was a done deal.

Blimey, the real world was a shock.

But I've achieved a lot, and I don't know if I would have without that all female environment where I was taught I was totally equal to any man, and that I could do anything that needed doing. So, I'm grateful. However, it's meant that I've had to learn to become a feminist in adulthood, because I mistakenly thought feminism wasn't needed, and was all about drinking your own menstrual blood, which didn't appeal.

I think it's led to my bewilderment when feminism is necessary, as for my formative years, it wasn't. Would I send my daughter to an all girls school? Quite possibly, but she has more feminist male role models than I did outside school.

In a good school, maybe a glimpse of how life could be for women if men didn't hold them back.

Are single sex schools representative of real life though?

No! But that's kind of the point.

Are single sex schools representative of real life though?

You're only in school for X hours a day. Most girls at single sex schools have fathers. Many have brothers, and extended family members who are male. Some even have interactions with boys and men in the evenings and weekends. That was certainly my experience!

In the meantime, you're getting an education (seen as a priority for many) free from the distractions and often (generalising) domineering presence of boys.

'Elevating boys/men to a status above us' was certainly not my experience. I wouldn't go so far as to say it was quite the opposite, but I definitely came away feeling equal.

And then I went out into the 'real world', and it gradually dawned on me that they do hold a status above us. Depressing.

Academically we all did well but I do wonder how much our lack of seeing boys get questions wrong, be a bit smelly, suffer from self confidence issues -all the same things that girls do in the classroom - meant that we elevated them to a status above us.

Are there single sex primary schools?

After four years of primary school, I knew enough about boys so that I would have preferred a girls' school.

You may have a point, but I am not sure ... I did observe girls competing for boy's attention even though they were co-ed and knew perfectly well how boys are.

I think it has more to do with social conditioning than with a lack of experience.

Though of course I only went to co-ed schools and don't know how bad it is at single sex schools.

What single sex schools offer is an environment in which girls can thrive free from sexual harrassment, stereotype threat, boys monopolising the teacher's time (well document in research studies). It may not be the "real world" in the sense of being a mirror of the worst bits of the adult world, but what it is is an environment where girls can learn, develop their interests and hopefully grow strong enough, sufficiently well-informed and independent that when they won't have had their chances fucked up before they get out into the "real world".

Are single sex schools representative of real life though?

Single sex schools exist in real life.

They are representative of the real life insofar as real life takes place in single sex schools.

Women who went to single sex schools might experience some cultural shock when they experience misogyny in the workplace, but as has been pointed out, girls have plenty of opportunity to experience misogyny while they are not at school, so that's not much of a concern.

And if a girl goes on to become a lesbian separatist, then girl schools are indeed representative of her adult life. She will never be wholly removed from the influence of patriarchy, but then, neither ar girls at girls' schools.
The curriculum is still decided by males, there are, for all I know, male teachers at more or less all girls' schools, et cetera.

I thrived in an all girls school. One thing that did and does worry me though is that our separation from boys meant that they were seen as something "other". Perfect other beings. Some sort of prize to be won.

And you won them by being the prettiest, the thinnest.

Those kind of out of touch views amongst high achieving, slightly neurotic girls led to almost obsessive behaviour when it came to boys. Academically we all did well but I do wonder how much our lack of seeing boys get questions wrong, be a bit smelly, suffer from self confidence issues -all the same things that girls do in the classroom - meant that we elevated them to a status above us.

Are single sex schools representative of real life though?

What do they want us to say in response to it, I always wonder.

That we are happy they don't want to be friends with us as we don't want to be friends with them, either?

Seems logical.

There is something interesting about women who rush to claim they get on better with men than women. And who say it by posting on a women's forum.

What do they want us to say in response to it, I always wonder...

Thank you, that's really reassuring Ava, GetaHaircut and NoLove!