Girls only schools

My point was that you have picked up on the OPs exact words (as opposed to the general ideas in the exchange between her and I that I helped contribute to)

I picked up on both. Since you're being patronising I will also say...that's what conversation is.

I actively chose a co/ed school for my daughter and felt very strongly against a girls school for her. My eldest is also co-ed (DS) and I see no difference academically with the education and expectations of the girls compared to the boys. I feel that, especially for girls who are not stereotypical a co-ed school allows them the opportunity to not conform, to find their people (DD has mainly male friends) and to break up some of the less than pleasant girls behaviour when they are 13 / 14 / 15. I went to a girls school and I was perfectly happy there but felt very strongly that having a high achieving co-ed school was a far better environment for my DD. In fact, she was at a co-ed prep school and the private co-ed schools weren't academically strong enough so we chose a co-ed state school for her and her brother which was strongly supported by the school.

You don't have to accept it - that's up to you. My point was that you have picked up on the OPs exact words (as opposed to the general ideas in the exchange between her and I that I helped contribute to) and I can't interpret these.

Oh, so sorry for not understanding. I shall just accept this fact henceforth.

I was questioning why specifically parents who sent their children to single sex schools are showing themselves not to be bothered about anyone's children but their own

I think this has been explained, but as it was the OP's expression I will leave the OP to elaborate if she wishes.

YetAnotherSpartacus

Ok, I take your point.

That only makes sense if you agree that everyone wants to send their girls to a single sex school and the boys to co-ed

The discussion was contextual and raised in light of a post that described a MS school as having few girls. I pointed out that this may be the result of those having the means to do so sending their girls to SS schools. The OP then raised an ethical issue wrt this.

I can see that point in a sense. With me I go to a girls' school and my brothers go to a boys' school so I'm not sure what that would say in that context about my parents. It's not necessarily about resources as I know of independent mixed schools and state single sex schools (a fair number of each) although I appreciate it may often be.

The hypocritical aspect is only if you take that opinion. I was questioning why specifically parents who sent their children to single sex schools are showing themselves not to be bothered about anyone's children but their own.

That only makes sense if you agree that everyone wants to send their girls to a single sex school and the boys to co-ed.

That might be the consensus on here, because most of the women are feminists, but lots of people don't give a monkeys about feminism.

Because if everyone sends their girls to SS schools an imbalance will happen in mixed schools. If we accept (for argument's sake), that SS is better than mixed, then that leaves some girls disadvantaged if they do not have the means to go to a SS school. In addition, if mixed is better for boys and the OP chooses mixed for her son, then this implies that some girls are necessary to provide a 'mixed' environment. The OP is (I think) saying that if she wants this benefit for her son (having girls around) then she should not be hypocritical and send her daughter to a SS school, expecting less resourced parents to provide the girls from whom her son will benefit.

Correct me if I'm wrong OP.

I'm not clear on how precisely parents who send their children to single sex schools are only thinking of their own children whilst parents who have the choice to but choose mixed schools are thinking of what benefits all children.

I'm not entirely sure how sending a child to a single sex school means you're not showing a social conscience?

Yes. I really don't know what to say, though, because as I have said in my previous posts I think the issue is much bigger than SS vs Co-ed and also has to do with the type of school and its relative wealth / resources, etc. Basically, the system is fucked and those with the least resources to begin with are going to be the most screwed in the end - as usual.

I do applaud your social conscience, though.

I suggest that you ask your daughter to make up a list of pros and cons of both schools and a list of reasons about why she prefers one to the other. I also suggest that you make a list of your concerns and consider each and that you make a decision with your daughter in a collaborative way.

Secondary school(must have been something in the water)again boys far outnumber girls

Maybe the girls in the area have gone to SS schools, leaving those without the means to do so in your daughter's predicament.

I'm very sorry to hear that about your daughter's experiences Hotheadwheresthecoldbath. It seems such a shame that she's been put off sport (though fully understandable and something which happens to many girls - there's another thread about that on this forum entitled "This Girl Can"). Do you think she might be able to join a club or somewhere to play sport away from school, with other girls? It's not too late for her to get back into sport and do something she loves. It'd be great for her confidence especially as she loved it before.

With regards to computer science this is something else which worries me about mixed schools - why it is that subjects are so gendered. I have a couple of friends at a girls' school near where I live at which computer science is taught from Year 7 now, and the take up is pretty significant to A Level. STEM subjects are all popular at my school and the girls' schools I know of. I hope she's not being put off by being one of only three girls? I hope they can support one another and all thrive in the subject. Maybe she could look into doing some extra work in it outside school and finding groups of women in the field. Not sure if any of these might be of any help: www.codefirstgirls.org.uk/
www.geekgirlmeetup.co.uk/

Though she goes to a mixed school there may be ways to meet up with other girls and women who share her interests in those subjects and gain more confidence. It's fantastic she challenges sexism when she can, too!

I went to a large city comp. and did well academically,girls encouraged to do sciences etc.I had a mixed group of friends all through school,all in the same classes/sets so although there was casual sexism I was mostly shielded by it.
My daughter's experience,now age 14 is completely different.She has been a bit unfortunate in that her year group in primary there were only 6 girls out of a class of 26, the girls never got to work together and she would often come home upset as in group work the boys either didn't listen to her ideas or messed around and then copied her work.
Secondary school(must have been something in the water)again boys far outnumber girls.She lived sport but has dropped all of it as she is embarrassed by the boys watching,she wanted to go off sick on sports day.She hates all the who fancies who stuff and is one of only 3 girls doing computer science.
She does call out bits for sexism if she knows them well .It is all so much more pressured than when I was at school.She has had all her long hair cut really,really short this year and as it was so radical and unusual and suits her she has not been teased at all,only on other girl in her year has short hair.
I think she would have had more confidence if she had had more girls around her early on but as she's got older and noticed that I am a bit of a closet rebel she is getting there.If I had had a choice for her I would have sent her to an all girl's school though and then scouts for a bit if mixing.

Considering stats claim generally girls do better academically than boys I don't see how the argument for single sex for girls holds up. Girls are achieving over boys in mixed sex schools too. If anything it's the boys that are suffering.

Doesn't seem to be doing them too much harm though, given that they leave school and go on to rule the world.

Very true Spartacus. The school is probably the main factor as you say; the culture, teaching and atmosphere at the school are so important for pupils to thrive. It's fantastic to hear you did so at school and university and your point about my schooling is a very good one (hope that doesn't come across as patronising) - I should think about that more when I post on the topic of schools. I was trying to get across how much I think girls' schools can help girls and how lovely the atmosphere is in them from my experience and that of friends but appreciate I'm very lucky to be able to attend such a school.

In general on the topic of this thread I suppose it clearly depends on the child

I think it also depends on the school. The choices my parents made for me were not really in my best interests because I was supposed to leave school at 15 and get a 'good job' as a secretary or bank clerk as fitted my sex, but the mixed sex school was really the best option given financial constraints and it worked really well mainly because of some fantastic teachers - it was sheer dumb luck really. I'm honestly not saying 'check your privilege', but from what you have written it does seem that you and your parents faced few(er) constraints than mine. Your school sounds really wonderful, but I suspect it is out of the picture for many and many others will face different and probably more constrained choices. TBH I envy you. At my own school, I learned critical thinking before it became a buzz word. At university, I excelled because I could so easily see beneath the bullshit and because I could also look at situations from marginal positions because I was in a marginal position (more related to social class than sex), so I could analyse the fuck out of something from standing outside and looking in. Ultimately, though, those with more material wealth tended to do better because they had more wealth and that brought the kinds of material, social and cultural capital that saw them have the success that I did not, even though on the marks sheets that in those days were publicly displayed with names on them mine was always at the top. Sorry - that's a rant, but it goes back to my former point that it isn't just about ss vs ms...

Boys are not evil creatures to be avoided at all costs. It really annoys me that these threads always imply that boys are all sexist pigs

I have a fair few good friends who are boys (and feminists) and my brothers certainly aren't sexist (they know they'd face my wrath) but I have heard and seen a huge amount of sexism and misogyny from boys, plus heard of it in mixed schools where sexual assaults have risen in recent years. It won't be the case in all mixed schools and clearly isn't all boys but it definitely occurs. My brothers attend one of the top boys' schools in the country and I also know boys there - I've also heard horrific misogyny from others there but doubtless when addressing teachers or parents they're extremely polite.

In general on the topic of this thread I suppose it clearly depends on the child. I'm very grateful to go to a girls' school and as I've said many times think it's fantastic for so many reasons; others would thrive in mixed environments. For some they'd probably be fine in either. A lot also depends on the specific school (although I also know girls at other girls' schools who think they're great too).