Want to talk

People wear clothing to protect them from non-pleasant temperatures. If you choose not to wear any clothes on a cold winter's day you could die from it, therefore making clothing a need to survive.

Well if you think about this for half a second you would realise this isn't true. It's 30 degrees here and cloudy. Clothes are not necessary today - and yet, no-one is walking around naked.

What a shock, someone who is not only 'not a feminist' but entirely ignorant of the issues is offended that they didn't get a big ol' round of applause for asking for an instant education. 'You know, just give it to me in a nutshell.'

He even asked you all his questions. You are all feminazis.

Don't thank me OP. I'm not on your side here. You haven't listened to a single thing anyone has said. We get a lot of that from men, and we're tired of it, so its a shame if you don't feel you've been adequately indulged but there we are

Oh no that ended in a way that was not at all predictable.

No need to throw your toys out of the pram because you haven't got the answers you wanted. We are asking that you think critically and answer our questions, which you have failed to do.

Of course men and women face problems, but on the whole men do not face the same ones as women. The majority, if not all, of the problems women face is simply down to their biological sex. This is why feminists are for females and not males. How many men do you think really give a shite about women's problems, let alone do anything to fix them? So I ask again, why is it the job of feminists to fix male problems?

It's gotta make you wonder why a bunch of strangers are taking to you so badly.

1. Yes, but men wont fix problems for us; men cant even see most of them. We have to organise ourselves. We dont have the resources to do that and fix mens problems as well. Each group has problems and an outlook that is specific to that group. So white people cant wade in and fix the problems Black people face; we cant see many of them. But we can be good allies. Look at healthcare in the USA. Women are losing healthcare rights. Men are voting in favour or turning a blind eye. When asked by a feminist blogger to highlight a vote recently, male bloggers replied 'its not our brand'. Men just dont see womens problems as being relevant to them.

But men dont seem to want to do things for themselves. For example, Rape Crisis UK has helped men start male Rape Crisis services and each time they close for lack of funding and support from men.
That has to change. Mens rights and activist groups need to study and tackle the problems men face instead of just blaming feminists or women.

If i instead of thinking why there's a need for women's day, instead believe both day's are needed, is that a feminist belief? Or is that egalitarian?

I notice you have failed to answer any of my questions. It is not a feminist belief, no.

Thinking you need both a women's and men's days shows you have failed to understand all the reasons explained to you about why we need feminism and a woman's day. I ask again, why do you think there's a need for a woman's day? Why do you think there would there be a need for a man's day and can you think of any reason why there's not one?

Women organise to fix problems that we face as a group. That is feminism in a nutshell.

There is a pay gap between men and women that is nothing to do with maternity leave. For example;
12% pay gap in UK universities, and fewer female professors
www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/gender-pay-gap-universities-uk-not-close-female-professorships-rate-sex-male-a7757441.html

Women live with a high risk of violence and sexual abuse from men. Its why we organise and fund Rape Crisis and domestic violence shelters. We have also supported men in starting their own rape crisis and DV services.

Violence against women and children is on the increase.
www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/13/hidden-rise-violent-crime-growth-violence-against-women

Domestic violence costs the UK an estimated £15 billion a year
www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/what-is-domestic-violence/domestic-violence-the-facts/

These are the kinds of things we are concerned about and want to change.

I'll let you in on a little secret on child custody, as I'm a man with shared care of my child. The courts (at least in the uk), base their approach on the best interests of the child. If more men want to be taken seriously the magic formula to make that happen is be an active and involved father BEFORE the relationship breaks down.

In other words don't delegate all the labour of child raising to women, and then expect the courts to swoop in and award you with a 'fair' 50/50 or sole custody. To even make that point without understanding the parenting demographics positively drips of male entitlement (which is another neat little demonstration of why feminism exists). Don't be that guy.

OP I imagine that you're patting yourself on the back because you're engaging with us and you're being super open-minded about letting us speak. But really what feminist hasn't heard this 'educate me' nonsense? Yawn.

UpFor the situation in Sweden, UK and US is very different, this is what might be causing you to wonder why feminism is necessary.

You believe that your dad was an equal parent. But read that in case of divorce, he would not have had a chance to 'keep' you. Of course that sounds unfair. As you admit, this is US statistics, where most men are not parenting equally.
In Sweden, more men are parenting equally, and the outcome is that they will also keep their parenting rights and will have children living with them after divorce. Voila! Feminism.

Oh!! I see you are only a baby. I'll re-phrase that:

What have YOU done to stop catcalling and harassment? What have YOU done to look up stats on the wage gap? What have YOU done to get your swollen balls checked out? What have YOU done to read up on the reality of life for your female classmates.

Since you are so young, I'll give you a reading list:

Dale Spender "The Schooling Scandal"
Dale Spender "Women of Ideas and what Men have done to them"
Cordelia Fine "Delusions of Gender"
Cordelia Fine "Testosterone Rex"
Kat Banyard "The Equality Illusion"
Laura Bates "Girl Up" (you may find this one a bit less intellectually challenging than the others)

Read them, digest what is being said, work on your spelling and grammar, then come back and learn to listen before you try to mansplain feminism to women with way more education and experience than you.

For us, feminism isn't a hobby or a fun theoretical concept, it is the assertion - which goes against the cultural tide - that we are fully-formed equal human beings. What's to debate?

Your thread title says it all. You want to talk. But you don't want to listen or understand.

If you are genuine then why don't you spend some time reading through the threads here in order to educate yourself?

Or is it more important to get attention from women?

Oh ffs, OP, if you're that interested in feminism find a feminist reading list online and educate yourself. Your ignorance is not something to be proud of and hold up as an actual opinion ('not a feminist').

I'm sick of this expectation that ignorant arseholes who are opposed to me being treated like a full citizen want to have a pleasant chat in which I am expected to provide justification for being an actual human being.

I see you failed to answer my questions.

What have YOU done to stop catcalling and harassment? What have YOU done to look up stats on the wage gap? What have YOU done to get your swollen balls checked out?

Why on earth should we do all the work for you when google is at your fingertips? Once again, this will help

There are basically 2 types of feminism;
Liberal feminism - seeks equality for women by asking for changes in the law.
Radical feminism - Radical means 'root'. Radical feminists seek to change society to remove the obstacles to women.

The difference in thinking is shown neatly by this illustration;
Panel 1 shows the patriarchal system, which has inequalities designed in.
Panel 2 shows the liberal answer.
Panel 3 shows the answer designed from a radical perspective. change the system and you give people equality in a more natural way.

Look it's not rocket science, women are victims of sexual violence overwhelmingly more than men. Two to three women a week are murdered by a man known to them, and wealth and political power is concentrated at the top end of society of which men are are over represented and women are underrepresented by quite a large margin.

None of that is contentious it's just simply factual. If any of the above doesn't bother you I'd ask you to really examine your own attitudes towards women, by all means care about male suicides too or even the dire plight of sweet baby pandas. Neither of those two erase the facts I laid about above.

Men will continue to kill themselves at the same time as women are raped and murdered. I would understand your position if every time a man killed himself it magically unraped a woman or unmurdered another, but it doesn't so even bringing it up is actually irrelevant to the topic at hand.

What's worse is you are even expending mental energy which in no way is going to ever actually help male suicide victims. By even bringing it up in a discussion about feminism I am inclined to say how very dare you? It is obviously an important issue that deserves its own discussion, examination and analysis, yet you want to bring it up in as some sort of competing issue to shut down discussion on the big three issues I outlined at the beginning. If every time a discussion on a social issue comes up, but we end up talking about EVERY other social issue nothing gets resolved or examined in the detail it deserves. So I say shame on you sir, shame for derailing discussion on women's issues and shame for not really caring enough about male suicide enough to start a bespoke and seperate debate and analysis on it.

such as the fact that 9/10 times, a woman will get to keep the kid after a divorce. - what do you mean by 'keep'? Most children in Sweden will remain in the joint custody of both parents after divorce/separation and about 50% of kids whose parents have separated over the past few years will also live approximately equally with each parent.
www.scb.se/sv_/Hitta-statistik/Artiklar/Fler-barn-bor-vaxelvis-hos-mamma-och-pappa/